Ep # 122: Doubling Customer Base to 1000+, Growth Strategies from PeopleForce’s CCO Alexandra Sagaydak

[00:00:03] Adil Saleh: Hey. Greetings, everybody. This is Adil from the Hyperengage podcast. We had, our second episode from our trip in London, and we are so happy that we are, reconnecting and, the with with people that we had in the in the past. And, you know, I would say in the past three and a half, 4 years, we've gotten around 15, 20 HR platforms, and, we've been following their journey. A lot of them are now more, you know, people analytics, and they're investing more into AI after this big development in the in the AI GPT. We see a lot of, large language models coming out of Europe. We've seen, platforms going so big in the span of two and a half years and other, founders that are not serving that category riding the wave. And, you know, the the platform I'm talking about today is PeopleForce, and, they've been there long enough in in, in the time of pandemic and and and post and pre pandemic. And, one of the good things that we have seen, about PeopleForce is that they they're not so, you know, they're not so rapidly investing into riding the wave of AI, which is, in my case, is good because you already are clear on your go to market, on your customer segments and all. And, you know, it's it's it's it's never too late to implement AI when the time is right. And if you know that, that means you have your business strong. So which is one good thing that I've, we've, we have seen, keep, people, analytics and HR platforms like people, force, doing this, this, and this shows up, indicates a big sign of, you know, success and growth and all of that. So today, we have, our long time partner or follower and someone that has, has been a great advocate, to the customer success and great contributor to the customer success community, mostly in the Europe and also, you know, now now now in North America, is Alexandra. She's, she's a customer's chief customer success officer at PeopleForce. She's responsible for customer success and support team and helping the team, do more with less and be more, data driven and, you know, helping, you know, the team to prioritize all the, you know, high value accounts. So, Alexandra, it was really nice to have you after, I guess, I've been 2 years or more. Thank you very much for taking the time again. [00:02:33] Alexandra Sagaydak: Hey, Adil. I'm so excited to join your postcast as well. Thank you very much for inviting me again. It's, such a pleasure, and, I'm more than welcome to be here. And I hope that your, all your audience will find something useful today on our podcast. And I hope that, I will try to motivate as much people as possible to find some solutions in the customer success. So Absolutely. [00:03:03] Adil Saleh: Absolutely. And also [00:03:04] Alexandra Sagaydak: Let me do the small intro of myself, to your, the new Yeah. [00:03:10] Adil Saleh: Go ahead. [00:03:11] Alexandra Sagaydak: Probably. Yes. So, hey, guys. My name is Alexandra. I'm a chief customer officer here at PeopleForce. So PeopleForce is all in one HRM platform that manages your entire employee life cycle starting from hiring, absence management, onboarding, payroll performance, and eventually, onboarding from the employees. So our main focus is SMB and enterprise tech companies. And mostly, we are operating in Europe and LATAM markets. That's our biggest focus as for the now. Thank [00:03:46] Adil Saleh: you. Amazing. And and just so you everybody know, we had Alexandra when she was a director of customer success. Could you also tell us a little bit about, about your transition into your, senior role now CCO and how the responsibility changed and how company got bigger over time when when we first spoke and when you joined, as a customer's director of customer success. [00:04:09] Alexandra Sagaydak: Yes. Sure. Thanks for this, question. It was actually very, interesting moment in, my career when I have joined in PeopleForce. It was August 2022. And I think we met, with you in, 3 months later in November. And already in June last year, I was promoted to CCO because the customer success started to grow. And now we have already 4 departments. We have customer support, customer success onboarding, and tech writer team. So my transition was hard, I would say. It was definitely something very exciting for me. And, because it's transitioning from my director position to the executive, I have learned a lot along my way. And, of course, I made a lot of mistakes, but I also learned from them a lot. And I would say that we, at the company, grow a lot. If when I joined your podcast for the first time, we were still in the start startup mode. We had, I think, 50 people. Now we have, 100 people and we are still growing. We still have a lot of open positions on our website. And I think we wrote also, in terms of the customers, we doubled. So we were, like, 500. Now we are over 1,000 of customers in Europe and LATAM. And, wow. It was incredible journey and still is. So we are also now not a startup, but we are actually scaling, growing company. So, yeah, it's very exciting. [00:05:54] Adil Saleh: Amazing. Amazing. It's it's a CCO role, it's a, you know, C suite executive. It's it's not an easy job. It it comes with a lot of responsibility, and I'm sure, you know, you're taking care of all of your, you know, support and success and all their goals and everything. Tell us a little bit about, about, you know, what kind of, data tools you've incorporated, initiatives that you have taken along that would wouldn't have been possible without you. [00:06:23] Alexandra Sagaydak: Yes. I think that, the main thing that, I did over this past year and that contributed to the overall success of our department is that we divided customer success and onboarding teams. So previously, we had only customer support and customer success, and we decided to hire people and create the separate onboarding team that will drive only onboarding, and implementation for our customers. So customer success team can focus on the expansion and growing the accounts and adoption. And of course, driving value of all the products, features, to all the customers. And so, they can maximize, the ROI, from the product. So, yeah. It was, it it's still we are going on this path, but it was the beginning. And now we are driving this decision and the strategy more and more. And I would say that we also, if previously our onboarding was general as for the most of the startup customers when they're begin, when they begin. So now we are going to more digitalized approach and more, unique approach with each customer. Based, of course, not all their segmentations and MRR, but mostly based on the, value that they are trying to achieve from the product and categorize them by the goals. So I think, that, of course, there are still a lot of things that we can do. But, I like that we have already started and we have established some routine, and we are already doing this. So, then it will be much easier to scale this, to the old customers. [00:08:14] Adil Saleh: Yeah. It's about time for you to, you know, do things that, that, like, partially scale. Like, of course, you cannot digitalize entire onboarding experiences and all, but you can do that, say, 70%, and have a digital first approach, which Kristi, the CCO of, ClientSuccess, she said on her onto her podcast that everything that they do, they try to go digital first and see what we did what they can standardize or automate or amplify, which is, what I think. And looking at your products, like, you have 5 or 6 products that you offer, how do you, like, pre at the pre sales, stage, how do you recognize, that, what platform do do the customer, sees value inside? Like, what to sell in the first place? Because it's hard, you know, when you have, like, random different products to, of course, sell the right one sell the right one to the right, right person or right persona. So how does the the sales team or as you as a CCO actually categorize those, personas based on their problems that they they they face? Or, like, how does that process go? And then we talk about post sales. [00:09:23] Alexandra Sagaydak: Yeah. That's a good, that's a very good question. And probably, the story that I will tell now, will help other startups to find the way to their own approach. So first of all, you need to start with identifying your ICP ideal customer profile. We did this back in 2022. Our CRO driving this initiative and it helped a lot, overall company. And we have identified that most of, when our product is the most platform useful is for the tech companies, with employees from 50 to 500 employees. Similar to us, it can be b to b SaaS products, or outsource IT tech companies. Of course, we have smaller customers and enterprise accounts. But I would say that this segment is where our product fits, the most. And from this, we have started identifying our customer journey and understanding what's, the behavior behind our this ideal customer. And, of course, it's very easy. As you see how the company and the business is growing, you understand the needs and, the opportunities that you can present to your customers. And of course, first and further most, you need to start with core HR functionality, where you will have onboarding, cliff management, knowledge base, announcement package. Yeah. So even when you have 50 employees, you can already automate most of your HR and people operations tasks. And then as you grow, of course, your business also is growing and you need more and more functionality, start as recruit because you need to hire more and more people to your business. You need to get with the performance reviews, and drive OKR initiatives, and schedule 1 on ones, with team leads and their direct reports. And then you're starting to scaling and understanding that you would like to gather NPS across your company, different polls, different surveys to understand how the employees are going, what's about their well-being, and so on. So, as your business is growing, your, your need to proceed with the product also is growing and that's where customer success is coming and helping you the most to understand that on this particular, stage of your business, this is, the opportunities that are open up for you and you need to already to scale. And, of course, to proceed with some other products to support your business growth. So, yeah. [00:12:15] Adil Saleh: Mhmm. Interesting. And I was looking at your pricing. I'm sorry. You might notice noticing that I'm not I'm diverting my attention. So I was looking at your pricing, the core HR model. So any small I would say, small size business with, up to 50 employees, they have to pay $100, $120 a month. Yeah. You know, for for that amount of, and and and this is quite nominal. And I was thinking that, you know, looking at, the cost, that a business need to invest versus the features, like, talking about the employee profile, that's pretty, pretty interesting, like, you know, having a 360 view of the employee profile to drive the relationship with, you know, derive the relationship, of the employee to make sure employee retention is a big big big use case. So thinking about data and all that you're talking about, I'm only seeing the features and all when it comes to, you know, company profiles and all the excellent data points that you're giving, to these, these teams, you know, people teams. Are you also leveraging generative AI, like, people analytics, at this point, or are you guys thinking of, having this kind of AI? [00:13:24] Alexandra Sagaydak: Thanks for this question. So, first of all, in the platform you already will find the different kind of reports, and each product has its own report section, which support and show you the data and statistics across your business. And if we're talking about AI functionality, I would say that we are currently start building it, but we are not, we don't want to be in this place, where right now, as you see, this AI boom is everywhere. And we would like to be wise about this and to have a decision that will actually help our customers and will, adds up the value to the product, not just having AI because of AI. Because, I think it doesn't make sense. And, yes, AI is great, but you also need to think where to implement it and where do you want, to help your customers the most using the AI? [00:14:31] Adil Saleh: Okay. Very interesting. And and thinking about, you know, all this, you know, for enterprises, how do you guys, like, productize all of the all of these, tech packages and all? Like, is is it all custom based on demand? You do you understand their operations? Their of course, the team member count is quite okay. But do you think that, on an enterprise level of some company that has 1500, 2000, 3000 employees, it's okay for them to, you know, you know, for you as a customer success team or sales team, to charge them per seat per employee. Is that still okay with with that amount of, you know, big employee count? [00:15:10] Alexandra Sagaydak: I would say that, we have, this bigger accounts with employees more than 2,000 employees. And the package offering is usually custom because it's, depends on the, particular where their business are and what they would like to have the next. Because sometimes we, still meet the customers who have a lot of people, but their process kind of very basic in terms of the HR and people operations. So and, of course, because it's an enterprise customer, their life cycle of this deal is much longer than SMBs. And, it's a lot of research, meetings back and forth to understand customer needs, how they would like to grow, what they would like to use, where we need as a product to support their business processes. So but the, but the price per seat still works, for these customers. And I would say we are not unique here because all our competitors do the same, model. So, yep. I mean, that's how it works. [00:16:19] Adil Saleh: Okay. So you're not [00:16:21] Alexandra Sagaydak: yeah. Offer is also depends on what you have and what you would like to have in terms of the business processes for your company. [00:16:29] Adil Saleh: Okay. Okay. So it's not locked by features, locked by employee [00:16:34] Alexandra Sagaydak: No. No. No. It's it's locked by products and seats. [00:16:39] Adil Saleh: Okay. Products and seats. Okay. You gotta add the products. Okay. Got it. Got it. Okay. So now thinking about go to market, are you guys, like, a few years down the road, funded a company with a team good enough, customers good enough? How do you see, as a go to market, mostly in the mid market, and, in the enterprise? Do you like, are you one of the companies, one of these b two b SaaS companies that want to more go with numbers? Like, they want to target more SMBs and, like, have 150, 200000 customers in the next 3 to 4 years or thinking about getting acquiring more logos and having more enterprise motion and building or refining or, pivoting more towards building products, multiple products, even, reshaping or reframing or remodeling these product more for the mid market enterprise, which gives you the, a bigger lifetime value or revenue size and all of that top line revenue retention as well because that bigger business is incorporated inside, your platform. It's equally hard to, you know, get them out of out of that system, and it's hard for them to migrate. So, you know, of course, the product stickiness is there, but the company, when it gets bigger, the stickiness gets bigger too. So how do you see it as a CCO, this entire go to market motion from the commercial side? [00:18:00] Alexandra Sagaydak: Yes. Thanks for this question. So I would say that, we have already GTM teams and GTM Motion inside of the PeopleForce. And we are not very unique here. We just applied the standard approach from the, already existing strategies that are on the Adil. And our chief revenue officer is leading this motion. He is in charge of our GTM strategies. And I would say our focus as a company is more acquiring logos of our ICPs in the geographical location and markets that we are interested in. So, for example, we are, of course, not a secret, the startup with Ukrainian roots. And this is was our domestic market where we have started operating. And then we have grown and started acquiring customers from all over the world. But we have understood that, it's not possible to go to every country. It's not possible. You need to tailor to some specific locations. And, we decided to first go to Poland. It's obvious because it's a closest country to us. The language is very similar. The people are very similar. They're open to Ukrainians. And, of course, we've understand that, it's interesting to go with this with our product there because it's also, for the specific segment, as I mentioned, IT tech companies. And, we have started our first GTM strategy there, and we already have their great results. We have a separate team of sales, marketing, customer success who are working altogether on one goal to drive the sales and value to the existing and new customers in this market. And then we have started our research and we decided to go to LATAM, the Spanish side. And, we also decided to go with the same approach and we have a specific GTM team there who is covering this market that includes sales, marketing, and customer success, managers. And I would say that our biggest goal for this year is to establish all the operations in these, two markets and drive the growth, there. And I think this GTM strategy is, I think, the best one from existing on the market because it's very clear and you understand how you operate and how you need to reach out your goals as a company and drive sales on this market because it's tied to geography. So I would say it's not a surprise here. And if someone is thinking about any of different GTM strategies, I would advise, of course, to try this one, because, first of all, it's very clear one, and, it's very easy to measure results. You already have some data, that will understand your decisions and how to move forward. [00:21:17] Adil Saleh: Okay. Right. Right. Interesting. Interesting. And, you know, you're only focusing on these 2 countries. And, of course, once you tap tap in and get the most, potential out of it, then you'll move to the neighboring countries. But your upper manners and you're thinking of staying in Europe, for as long as I can see for, like, next 3 to 5 years? [00:21:37] Alexandra Sagaydak: Well, we have, we have customers all across the Europe and we have, like, all of them there but we mostly focus on Poland. And in terms of Latin America, we are focused on Spanish speaking countries there. So it's it's not only Argentina, but also Mexico, Uruguay, Costa Rica, and all others. [00:22:01] Adil Saleh: Amazing. Okay. So you're you're targeting Latin American, like, based on language. Yes. And it's it's a big market. It's it's a very huge market, and it's it's it's growing big at a very rapid pace, when it comes to b to b SaaS and IT and all. Cool. So talking about your post sales experience as a CCO, Like, what kind of processes did you have? Have you implemented any digital approaches? What kind of things, you know, if you just talk about onboarding now that you have a separate team for it? So what kind of, how what what how they're leveraging data to prioritize that, you know, the the onboarding and how much of that is seamless, like automated, how much is more hands on, and and rest of the like, when it comes to customer success, the, like, net dollar retention, increasing the lifetime value expansion, you know, how you're indicating those opportunities and, of course, churn and, you know, all the bad things, that that you don't want to happen as a customer success leader. So how you guys are forecasting all of that and web data, like, how data plays a role, in it? [00:23:09] Alexandra Sagaydak: So I would be honest here. I'm not a usual CCO. I know that there are a lot of LinkedIn posts and a movement there to make everything digitalized and, but I would not say I'm a big fan of this, but I think that the digital customer success also needs to be implemented wisely. So I would say we, decided to proceed with opposite approach. We decided to leave onboarding as a high touch model, because we understand and I think that I said that previously on our first podcast that onboarding is 90% of the success. And, because as soon as you implement the product and your you teach your customer how to use it and you make them self teachable. Yes. And they know how to use a product, how then to work with your without your help. It's helped to then to, implement all other digital tools that will help your customer success team more. So I would say our onboarding team is still operating in the high touch mode and I don't want to go to the digital onboarding any soon, yet. I don't see that with our platform it's currently possible because the platform itself is very complicated and it has a lot of different types of workflows, operations, and things that are tied together and needs to be implemented carefully. So then the customer will actually see, the value from the product. But with customer success, we have proceeded with some digital and automated, approaches and processes is, of course, surveys, notifications, all kind of, emails that can be sent to the customer. It's some internal things that we have automated to serve our routine. Some triggers, reminders, and so on. So, yeah. This in customer success we are using, but not for the customers, but for ourselves to make our life easier so we can provide, the customer better value and to focus on the most important things. So we can have the room and the time to do what we need to do the best. It's, focus on providing the value and expansions. So yes. [00:25:49] Adil Saleh: Follow-up question. Yep. Follow-up question on this. On onboarding, I do get the part that you have different products, and you need to make sure you, your team is equipped enough. You know? Get, you know, customers inside the platform, help them adapt to the platform, teach them, and that's only gonna do good to the customer's skills. And it's goals, like, expansion, retention, you know, all of that. I 100% get that. But when it comes to, you know, you know, in, I would say, hands on, like, high touch onboarding motion, the platforms that might be wrong, but a lot of platform that come in, onto our podcast, they are like, I've never seen this, platform is $400 to $100 a month. And, you know, let's say for 50 employees, and they have a dedicated customer success manager that is helping, you know, you know, they're trying to, you know, spoon feed, the customer for $100 a month or $120 a month. How does that, you know, how do you manage the bandwidth, as as a as a CCO? Or, you know, how is it more making sense financially making sense? You know? Have, let's say, 15 customers in a week that are paying 20 a $220 a month. And you gotta make sure that you're there inside your platform and giving them hands on, onboarding, or onboarding calls or kickoff calls. [00:27:10] Alexandra Sagaydak: So I, I'm very proud of the approach that my team, created. We have a very clear distribution model between onboarding managers, how which customer is goes to which onboarding manager. Second thing, we have a very clear, onboarding checklist which customer, is, feeling once they became our customer. When we receive the most important information that will help us to understand how to drive the onboarding for this particular customer. And the third thing is, not all the customers would like to go with the high touch onboarding. That's why we have a separate, tech writers team that is very hardworking on, doing our help center with, 1,000 of guides and videos because usually some of the customers are okay with proceeding, with the and read the materials and just reach out to customer support on some very specific reactive questions. So that's it. And based on this checklist, the onboarding manager already knows, what's, basically their approach to drive with this customer, how the onboarding will last, and, I mean, all the details that they need to know to run this onboarding successfully. And, of course, the the last and the most least, yes. Even though it's a high touch onboarding, the end goal is to teach the customer and to make them independent as much as possible. And this is how our entire onboarding is created. And, when it's created to make the customer independent, that's where the real value comes from. And I would say, honestly, we wanted to go with some, b to b SaaS onboarding tool. And we have tried many of them. Arrows. We have tried, I don't know, some other tools which are specifically for the customer onboarding. And none of them fitted us the way how we want to fit it then. And basically, because what we want is something better than what we have created. And unfortunately, we didn't meet this solution or the product yet. Of course, if you have very clear b to b SaaS product, I think that such solutions will work for you. But, for the complex platforms, I would say, it it's not done yet. And I'm not talking about PeopleForce only. I know that there are a lot of other b to b platforms that are very complicated. And, general customer success or onboarding tool won't work for them, to cover all, their needs. And I think this is where customer success as a sphere can still develop and, I mean, basically, maybe there will be someone or some who will build this solution to cover more complicated products as there are a lot of on the markets. [00:30:57] Adil Saleh: Yeah. I mean and it's not just on the product side. It's also on the customer side as well. Like, if you have 5 customers, they have 5 different products, they may they may perceive branding differently. All all of them. course. Of the customer experience inside, they also change. You know, not with the with the not just the product, but also how the customers use the product changes as well. And how they, they they want to get value out of it is is also changing. That's complicated as you mentioned, and I have a percent agree with it. And I see that it took I mean, of course, you might have divided, you know, those customer that are getting hands on, you know, glove service, white glove service, that are paying, like, to certain threshold, like, based on on the revenue or based on the account value you're segregated, and and then that way, you're you know, because if somebody has, like, all 6 of the products and, they should be treated differently because they've paid enough, and the the lifetime value of the customers is big enough. However, if somebody is stuck paying low, have some other solutions to get them, you know, inside the platform. Maybe there's those triggers and those emails, those help centers and, you know, people that are sending them some guides and all of that, which is, which is nice. So talking about customer success, your core customer success, values, as you mentioned, that is serving the the the customers that are well adopting the platform post onboarding, stage. What kind of, data points are you guys setting up when it when when I'm only talking about the product usage, platform usage, I see there are so many touch points inside the platform. You have calendars. You have profiles. Use you have, you know, polls and announcements. There's so many features that you want your users to use. Of course, a lot of them are, you know, the the power features. You want more them to more use because that these are basically critical features like we have a B2B SaaS platform based on signals, so we want all of our customers to use signals because that defines, you know, it it give indicates that this this it's user this is a potential user. So that's kind of a success metric, that we have defined. So what about you, your customer success team that is focusing on product use and how they're elevating, you know, the customer experiences, success, and, of course, retaining more customers' revenue and then expanding revenue. So how is is it all tied to? [00:33:21] Alexandra Sagaydak: So, everything is quite simple. Everything is going again from this ideal customer profile and from the customer journey. When when you have these 2 together, 2 these pieces, and you have overview of your cost of each customer account, what their business is doing, what's their product about, who are the main stakeholders, how often you communicate with them, what HR and people operations processes they already have, in their company. It's very easy to understand on what metrics to focus on. Because, basically, it it again, it depends on the company size and where they're in and what they should be using at this stage. And, of course, it's helping us to understand, okay, this is customer, for example, this company is b to b SaaS product with 100 employees. They, they need to use this, this, this. And based on, this kind of research and metrics, we already understand what the usage should be. And, of course, the usage is also tied to seasonality of the business, and it's also cover this part as well. So, of course, when we see some low numbers, we don't panic immediately because we understand that the business also have their seasons. It's also even, very, noticeable with the kind of how the customers are reaching out to the customer support. Sometimes there are days when they are not very active. Sometimes there are months where everyone starts writing, and we understand the time has come and businesses are starting to reevaluate all their people operations processes or they're, preparing something that they would like to roll out to the whole company. So when actually you know your customer, you know on, which state of their growth, how they need to operate, it's very easy, to entitle this information to the metrics, to monitor it, and just to understand where it's highs and lows. And this and where these lows is actually bad or not, and where highs is actually bad or not. Because there can be also some spike in high usage and you may think, oh, it's great, but maybe, it's not because of some good reason and maybe, I don't know, something has happened and the whole company or everyone tries to understand what's going on. So I would say, when you're starting your customer success journey in every startup, pay attention to your ideal customer profile, what are these companies, how they should grow, and on which stage of their growth, how they need to operate. And this will answer most of your questions on what metrics you need to focus and how often you need to focus on them, how often you need to check them. Because there are some, products, that are b to b to c where you need to check some metrics daily and there are some products where you can go with weekly monitoring. [00:36:37] Adil Saleh: Okay. So it's it's about knowing your customers, staying closer to your customer, understanding their operations, and that serves the job. And then that way, you'll you'll have the meaning of all the data points and all the the good or bad and ugly, that they're doing inside the inside the platform. Amazing. So now what's, what you guys are looking forward, like I said, as a CCO, it's is it gonna be one of these things, like, acquiring these many customers in Poland or maybe in in Europe or Latin America and and and South America? 2nd, implementing maybe taking this initiative or maybe adding more departments, or you had this onboarding team. Maybe you you have the any initiative are you thinking of taking later this year by the closing, closing of this year? [00:37:29] Alexandra Sagaydak: I would say that, no. I'm okay with the headcount I have currently now. And, actually, I'm the big fan of my team. I like them a lot. And sometimes someone asks me, do I have someone who I like the more? But the thing is no. I, love each of them really equally. And I know, each of one of them pros and cons. And how each of them serve the best, and and what's the best in them. So, no, with headcount, we are okay. My main initiatives that we would like to drive is, of course, expansion and to proceed with more automations inside our department to make everything serve us better, and just to make our routine as easy as much as possible. Because, when you have this time, you also have time to create clear goals and strategy for your customers because you don't need to worry about something else to fill some manual spreadsheets or whatever you need to do. So I think when you focus on getting the most also, value to your team and to make their life easier, they will better serve the customers and customers will also become successful from this. And in terms of the company goals, I don't want to disclose much. But, yes. Poland and LatAm is our main goals for the rest of the year. [00:39:08] Adil Saleh: Amazing. Amazing. I love the way that you're, you know, so kind of this is a people platform, and you are someone that is, like, so people focused and understanding people and, you know, attitude wise. I always like, I personally found you so, like, always smile on the face and always were like I still remember when we when we first, you met and I had you on on podcast and you had, like, smile going on with all all your answers and all. I said, hey. This girl is, like, so, you know, getting good vibe, and it's more like people's team. And and and, you know, I appreciate the, the the the leadership at PeopleForce course, they they they chose the right person, you know, personality wise and all of us, work for this job. So great to, you know, see, you know, you investing more into people or sending people and helping them expand more more customers because that's a real game. Expansion is not just the dollar number. It's not people don't do it for the dollar number. It's it's a validation. It's a testament of you delivering greater value via product, and people are happier, and they're willing to invest more. They can start this about dollar, but they have time and resources into your platform, and that's a big win. [00:40:24] Alexandra Sagaydak: Yes. You're absolutely right. [00:40:26] Adil Saleh: Yeah. So it was really nice, like, and, meeting you again, and I appreciate that you took out the time, one more, one more of this this episode, and, you take good good care of yourself. It was Yeah. [00:40:37] Alexandra Sagaydak: Thank you. Thanks for inviting me. Thank you. [00:40:40] Adil Saleh: Yeah. Bye bye.