Ep # 128: Leveraging AI for Smarter Procurement ft. Andreas Zimmermann (CEO, mysupply)

[00:00:04] Adil Saleh: Hello. Greetings, everybody. This is. Podcasts, your host, the and, you know, why I take a lot of time getting these podcasts in and screen these, these these guests and products because we are digging in deep into different technologies and how AI is shaping plus different industries. Prior to third quarter twenty twenty four, it was not that real of a thing to, you know, penetrate into into the industries that are not so much tech enabled, such as supply chain, such as, you know, procurement, such as, you know, health care Andreas estate. [00:00:40] Adil Saleh: So now we are we are working really, really hard towards, like, hunting these products that are, you know, that are investing heavily into into, you know, incorporating tech and AI into these processes. And that has never happened in the in in my lifetime and then, you know, you know, thirty to forty years, ever since the inception of, you know, these big giants of Salesforce and Apple from the Silicon Valley. So exciting times. We are, we are into a new chapter of AI, and, you know, it's my pleasure to, you know, talk to people like, Andreas, who's who's the CEO of, mysupply.ai. It's an AI platform, AI powered platform for, you know, procurement that is trying to automate and, you know, make procurement so intelligent and, you know, making sure it is as seamless as it is should be with the presence of AI. So it, huge heart out and huge respect for people like Andreas for doing this and making it possible in industries that are not so much, AI powered, and it is so hard to, you know, you know, make it like AI powered. So thank you very much, Andreas, for taking the time today. [00:01:44] Andreas Zimmermann: Yeah. Thanks for having me. [00:01:50] Adil Saleh: Love that. So coming someone from, like Zimmermann, clearly, I mean, I I know that it's it's, it's not easy to, you know, penetrate as a German getting out of a German German red tape in a industry that you're, in, like, enterprises. You know, they have got this big red tape, and, you know, it's so hard, you know, get your context. And, also, how did it all, get unfolded for you at MySupply when you started, you know, and you envisioned, hey. This is how we are going, in the direction, and, you know, this industry is pretty much less tab. But it's going to be equally hard for you to not acquire customers, that that with this problem, like procurement, because these are not going to be small SMB or startups that are, that you're looking at. So how big of a challenge was it? Only not to, you know, just build the product, but also to acquire customers and penetrate in the Adil. [00:02:46] Andreas Zimmermann: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for asking. So, very good question. So, of course, on the one hand, the German market is sometimes not the easiest one. So, basically, you can imagine, that, especially so change resistance in Germany is is a hard topic. So also when it comes to doing something different, doing something new, doing something a bit more disruptive, you are not open you are not always running into open doors. And, of course, if you just look at statistics about how AI is perceived in Germany and how it is perceived in other country, so, many Zimmermann see AI basically as a threat. So let's say it's taking my job Andreas not helping me. And and and that's, of course, sometimes a bit difficult. And, so we also had, of course, the situation that, there were there have been, let's say, a pilot customer. They were pretty much throwing with mud in the very beginning. So let's say to, alright, this is not going to be work because I'm just afraid. But this is, of course, not, let's say, the the the let's say that the the typical customer, that we're dealing with. But of course that's still a big topic right now, of course. So of course sometimes as I get as I said Zimmermann is is a good market to learn, to start and of course because we are culturally very close that's good to to get good feedback on that. But in other countries sometimes people are more open for exploring something new. And we have been never limiting just only to Germany and just saying all right this is our home turf this is our market. We have always seen ourselves as a European company, as a European startup. And so I see myself also as a European founder and less a German founder. And so we are let's say our company language is English. Most of the peoples in our team are based in Bulgaria, also Ukraine, and also Tunisia. So, basically, we never have been just only, Germany based in such a case for at least for a longer time now. So, let's say, we are learning not only from Germans but also also from from people in other countries Andreas, really what we we received really cool feedback so far, and that's a lot of fun. [00:05:04] Adil Saleh: Okay. Very interesting. Very interesting. So, thinking about, you know, a lot out of these European founder percent are not from Germany. They think about, you know, they look towards, like, Zimmermann being a bigger market. And, you know, if they're only looking to stay within Europe, that that's that's their big gig, like, acquiring logos from Germany and see how they can penetrate their like, having marketing operations in Germany. So it it is a it is a good to good to hear from someone, living in Germany. Maybe in this industry, you're also thinking Europe as a whole and, making sure that you travel into the market that are, neighboring market that are good enough, like, Ukraine is is big, even people's work, that is that are just still in Poland neighboring is is is is making that, impact, you know, during this time. So that is great. So how do you see it, the European market in terms of your industry, as a whole? [00:06:00] Andreas Zimmermann: Yeah. Of course, also, Europe is has very, very different markets as well. So let's say just talking about France, for example, a very huge and very nice market as well but it's of course very French driven. Yeah. Let's say of course you need to talk French to the people and it's it's very much on the of course on not only talking English only. There is the Scandinavian countries that are I think much more open like for example also The Netherlands. So, very international people. Of course, there are so many of from from from the example people living in The Netherlands. So they know so much languages and they're very open in terms of exploring new things and also for innovation. So I think there is there's not only Germany even though that's it's a very huge market, but there's very interesting countries also counting the The UK, for example. Also people that are sometimes really eager and learning something new and, sometimes a bit more than than the Germans are. [00:07:05] Adil Saleh: I saw that coming. I already saw that coming from you. Okay. Perfect. So now talking about my supply, and, how did you all, like, started? You know, what was the founding team? What was the biggest pain that you felt, hey, you you live with working at different companies in the past? So, you know, what was that thought process in the beginning and how it has shaped over the years, for you as a as a chief executive, and and and with AI with this much of impact and capabilities, how this all aligned as from a business standpoint for you? [00:07:40] Andreas Zimmermann: Okay. So I was running a consultancy before. And, within this consultancy, of course, I learned a lot about procurement. But I was also doing, let's say, as a supplier, basically doing a lot of negotiations with procurement. And it was it basically started with a very simple idea. So when I was selling consultancy services at that time, it was mostly like about alright. So the customer is asking for three different offers and you know when procurement calls, you need to just get them 3% f and then you get the deal. So I was just asking myself, alright. This is just stupid. This doesn't really make too much of a sense. You're not really leveraging the competition if you're doing it such in such a way. I said, alright. Let's just try start with something and build something for that. Very simply never build a product before like this and just start and let's just come up with an MVP. And then basically, you start doing something and then it let's say that involves in a certain way. Yeah. So it just you go from one to the other end. But the idea, let's say, about leveraging competition, making procurement easy and helping, getting good procurement results, that is still the core of the idea and it's it still is. And so but the way how things have been involving is of course pretty different. So let's say when we start building a simple SaaS solution, the next step is okay. What is very simple? Very simple is when it's automated. And then you can start building first algorithms about okay, getting things automated so we put game theory basically into, into algorithms. So and you make it even more autonomous. And then step by step, of course, also, the tech has been involving so much and especially during the last two years it was a game changer also for us. So having basically built such an SaaS solution right now, of course, we are pretty much able to use a lot of a I. There is a lot of different use cases where we can use mainly LLMs to do what we have been doing already before but much better. So with more intelligence, with better user experience and also that has been enabling us to build functionalities that wouldn't be possible three years ago like this. And especially during the last half year it was an incredible change also, what what we try to implement as early as possible, talking about agents just as one example. [00:10:18] Adil Saleh: Okay. So talking about, the processes that involve, in the procurement sourcing and all of this, you know, operation. So how, you know, did my supply has changed the way they've been traditionally doing in the past? You know? And, of course, consuming a lot of resources, not being as efficient as, as you were trying to, you know, help them with, like, with my supply. So, what was the initial process, that was going on for decades and decades, and how do you guys fit in, and, you know, what what was the real value prop that that you brought in as a product? Let's [00:10:55] Andreas Zimmermann: see. So there is a couple of things also over the time this has been evolving. So the traditional process is procurement does procurement. Yeah. So buyers do procurement. So they'll basically so someone tells them what they need to buy and then they do it. They get some offers and then they do what kind of ever as they do as a negotiation and then basically they close the deal. So this is basically the standard process that has been there for ages in certain way. And then we started let's say not as a basic really big disruption Adil let's say also changing this process. I'm alright. If you want to do a negotiation and you just give one phone call to one guy so that's poor. Yeah you can do that Adil let's really use the competition. And so we started building it into let's say automated negotiations where you'll use the competition that you basically have with different offers and compete making them compete and so we find figure out what the best price is and that's also fair for the suppliers because they really have a chance to also compete and if there's just one guy called and so all right get 3% off the other thing and what what the fox what what about me so I can so I can't participate and so also for the suppliers it's so much better so this was one step that we took but right now what ai was doing is helping us very much to even let's say help not only make procurement doing procurement but also helping simple users that have no clue about procurement at all doing procurement because we put everything into into AI. We make let's say my supply a digital buyer and help to do to do basically all the stuff that also procurement does for especially smaller spend also, let's say buy our tool. And this is where AI was a real big game changer right now for us. So especially LLMs. So we can do everything from the complete chain of we, we help from the from the description of the product. What it really is. What is the kind of a category is this? Who is good suppliers for this? How do we evaluate these offers? And finally also the negotiation piece yeah so this is basically what we can right now do and so basically the idea is of course procurement should focus on strategic things but the but the small and let's say tailspend let's say even though these, the the the users, they just want to get their stuff, they can do this on their own. And this is what was really possible with AI, and this changed a lot, during the last months especially. [00:13:38] Adil Saleh: Mhmm. And, actually, so all that you're the positive that you're explaining and, how it basically seamlessly made the workflow very smart, being being such a product as as My Supply, and and having all those key decisions, you know, to be made by his procurement manager. But, you know, all the other things and, the different comparisons and, you know, supply comparison, the different type in comparisons and, cost comparisons. Cost is a big big, big big big value prop. So how do you see it outside of the Europe? Like, how does it, like I'm I'm thinking of my supply, you know, fitting it best with the procurement that how it's done in here in the manufacturing and oil and gas, you know, in in the electrical, you know, industry in the electronics, in The US. So how, you know, do you see this My Supply as a product, covers all bases when it comes to the North American market? [00:14:36] Andreas Zimmermann: So my supply is pretty much focusing on indirect spend, and indirect spend is, in many companies, very similar. So it doesn't matter if it's a beverage company or if it's oil and gas. So they all need toilet paper sometimes. Yeah. So this is just one one very stupid example but basically indirect spend of course has some stuff which are different between industries. Different between the industries Adil let's say most of them are very, very similar processes. And this is the reason why we are also in that regards very, let's say, industry agnostic, because this is pretty much nothing where we are focusing on. I think it's more important, let's say, how much do the people buy? What is their internal processes? How do they currently do it today? And that's pretty much where we also start the process trying to understand, alright, how you're doing this and how we can get it from there to to make it as seamless as possible for you to doing also the transition into a bit different world. And this is also something that can be done step by step. So you don't need to just start immediately and just do everything completely different. So you can start also very easily and just, let's say, just having a bit better PR, so purchase requisitions in the very beginning. Start from there and then step by step doing automation. Then that basically the thing, so that's basically everywhere around the globe. It's just the same. Of course, there is countries in the world, where the chief procurement officer is the richest, richest man, basically, in the company because right right now, he's also motivated in different ways. So most likely, we're not right for these companies. Yeah? But if someone wants compliant processes, that's a different game. And I think that's that's that's a global case. So last year, in in the end of the year, I had one week where I was in in Las Vegas on on SAP talking, SAP event talking to, customers there from bigger, American enterprises. And the week after I was in Switzerland in a little village, let's say having complete different, companies over there. But the problem was just the same. Andreas Zimmermann: Everybody said I wanna get rid of the little things. I don't want to be bothered by this. So and we're helping basically getting rid of the small purchases. And that's basically everywhere the same problem, of course, with a different sometimes, with a different importance. So the bigger, let's say, the company, the bigger the problem normally. But, basically, the story is everywhere just the same. [00:17:18] Adil Saleh: Yeah. I mean, I love the way that you're trying to get the feedback and, you know, making sure that you understand the processes from all different, you know, in different, processes there. Of course, there are some regulations on the government level as well that change country to country or state to state in The US. Great. Great. Love the way, that you're approaching as a as as as a problem solving mindset and being a customer centric, and and knowing the problem firsthand, yourself working as a consultant. So now thinking of, you know, the growth and team and all of that, so where you guys at? [00:17:53] Andreas Zimmermann: Sorry. What what again? Sorry. It was just a little connection. [00:17:56] Adil Saleh: Thinking about the growth and the team culture, how you're thinking about, you know, growing the team and, of course, doubling down on the customer acquisition and, product market fit and, of course, in the product side. These are the top three things that we need to do, the capabilities we need to. So how what is that plan looking out for for the year 2025? [00:18:19] Andreas Zimmermann: So let's say, our team is mainly based in Bulgaria now because it really is really an amazing team. It's it's just so much fun, working with these people. We are pretty much a European team, as I said, And, so this will just remain in the same way. So we will grow our team and and, of course, also in the in the lovely country of Bulgaria. And, so this is also where we see the where we see and where we still find talent and really cool people, to be working with. Of course, there will be especially in sales, that's just not possible to just, have it in in in one European country. So let's say when business is starting most likely also in in The US, in UAE, and there is different areas of the world where I think sales and customer support might be also locally needed. So this is also something that is, from my perspective, very important. Right now, of course, in terms of product and how things are involving, we we try to be very very early adopters of our calls also new technologies. Because there's really so there's also these famous speech basically of the Microsoft, and and Google CEOs just during the last weeks, just saying SaaS is dead. Right now it's the time of the agents. And that's basically there's a lot of truth in there. It's not fully dead, of course, but let's say there's still a lot of stuff needed. But things are changing, of course. And, right now, especially as a start up, we need to learn very early what is possible and try to, of course, experiment with things and try to adopt them as soon as, of course, somehow possible. And you can just stick to your to your old process and to your old technology just for a few for years and then let's see. So as a startup, of course, you need to be able to do a very early adoption and see what you can get out of this. And I think we are we're we're doing good in this and learning a lot right now about new possibilities and are pretty pretty interesting about new possibilities here, and I guess this will help us a lot. [00:20:29] Adil Saleh: Perfect. So you you got a, like, of course, a technical cofounder alongside you as, like, a CTO, a product leader. Like, what does leadership team formation look like? [00:20:39] Andreas Zimmermann: So, basically, we have a really cool, team. So we have a we have a head of software development who who leads all the the tech part. We have a we have a cool, sales team, of course, taking care for this. We have a cool delivery team, so we're basically split into these, three areas. And so everybody there is a there is a team lead and pushing things and in this particular areas. So that's basically how we are structured. So, I I try to be, needed as little as possible. I still say sometimes a bit, but I do my very best so that everybody can just pretty much do his job on his own. And, and so I'm I'm I I can just focus on the fun parts only, but, not not always it all not always works out. [00:21:32] Adil Saleh: Yeah. I mean, of course, you know, for for a company starting out relatively small, the first two years, three years, the chief executive can be, can have problems 2AM and the midnight. Like, Like, nowhere no one knows, like, what kind of problem a CEO or founder can run into, in a startup. And, of course, that's that's that's a part and parcel of, founding a SaaS platform and having a SaaS founder. [00:21:54] Andreas Zimmermann: No. That's the cool surprise. Every every day, there is a new problem. That's for sure. Yeah? [00:21:59] Adil Saleh: Absolutely. Not [00:21:59] Andreas Zimmermann: Yeah. So, getting it's not getting boring. [00:22:03] Adil Saleh: Yeah. Yeah. And you you either, like, you know, keeping it a part of your life and calling it as a as a harmony or, you know, you just, you know, think, hey. I'm not for this. So it's just just it's this decision that you gotta make early on when you start. So I think, you know, that that's what you you part kind of married to or signed up in the beginning. [00:22:22] Andreas Zimmermann: Yeah. Of course, it's it's it's different. So I'm I'm not I'm not 22 anymore Andreas coming from university, and there is nothing else in my life. So I have two kids. I'm married. Andreas, sometimes, the key tie is on strike and and so on. So, of course, there's always things I need to handle, also, as as a father especially on this also part of my life. Yeah. So that's part of it. And it's not making sometimes easier, but it also very helps to, to to keep the course and, of course, to to to know where you're doing it for. And also sometimes also to be a bit more relaxed, because right now, of course, you you learn, alright, before you explode. Sometimes it's good to take a deep deep breath, sometimes. And, of course, I was break. [00:23:10] Adil Saleh: Maybe I was at a sea retreat last month, you know, out on the island, and, you know, it was great fun trying to, you know, just cut out everything. I had, you know, had a real good break, turn out the phone, try to unplug and peace out, and that really helped when I got back to work. [00:23:26] Andreas Zimmermann: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So, every weekend is kind of a a brainwash with family because you have complete different topics you handle, and, that's also part of the game. So now it's all good, and that's that's a lot of fun, let's say, getting getting everything, let's say, in kind of a balance. [00:23:47] Adil Saleh: Yeah. Absolutely. The balance and harmony. You know, making sure that you, keep them in the harmony. Perfect. So, also, I mean, this last segment is more about, you know, your customer journeys than, you know, how you're investing into data to be to better serve the customers internally, like your customer support team and sales you mentioned. Although it's it's relatively small, I mean, that's fine. But at the end of the day, you need to set up processes that, or standardization at some level. I'm not talking about automation. I know it's in your industry. It's not gonna be just, a low touch or hybrid touch, customer success model where you can sit up on top of their interaction to the platform. But, of course, there's gonna be some level of standardization that you're thinking of, let's say, making sure you, rack some of the events internally onto the platform for this, this procurement team, that ensures, the success of onboarding or success of, you know, product adoption. This might be a big problem in your industry too. Like, people are not easily adopted the platform first onboarding. So what kind of measures are you taking and how you're leveraging data, that that you're capturing from the customers, like interaction, then communication, all of that towards the customer success, for for your team. Mhmm. [00:25:00] Andreas Zimmermann: So, of course, customer success, of course, is a very important topic for us, and we try to also serve the customers as soon as we can. Of course, my supply wouldn't be my supply supply if we wouldn't also try to use AI for this. So, of course, especially for for easy first level support, we also try, of course, to to train very well bots to to help, of course, customers in the first place. So it doesn't matter when basically the customer comes around the corner, so there's always someone there and picking up. But, of course, we also try to be very, very responsive when it comes to needs Andreas when customer, let's say, have certain wishes, changes, whatever. So we try to be very close to our customers and and serve some because in the end, this is just was will bring our success. Of course, onboarding is is is a bigger topic, where we also try to work with videos and and helping them. So it's it's it's not like, okay, maybe we did it ten years ago. So there's everybody in the training room and something. So also companies are very remotely. And so we try to help with very good, let's say, explanatory videos and making it very easy for them. But that's also, of course, let's say, part of, our our DNA. We should try to make it as easy as somehow possible. So the full software should be as soon as easy as possible because most of the people never had an, how to shop on Amazon training. Yeah. And and we also try to make this just not not necessary so that it's even possible to work with my supply very easily. There is an integrated help even if you're working with our agent, for example. You can always ask for help and then there are some there's a help you're getting first on AI. If the AI can help, we have an agent, a person personal agent who is helping. So we try to put the customer pretty much in the middle and try to eliminate everything what is not necessary for the customer and to have just the best experience. This is at least, of course, what we what we aim for. It's not always happening in the very first place, but we work on this very hardly, so that the customer is pretty much the center of of what we're doing. And so customer should support should always look for, alright, if there is something wrong with the customer, why wasn't it self explanatory? Why is someone needs for help at all? Because it should be all in the tool as such. [00:27:37] Adil Saleh: Perfect. And all these such cases where, of course, you need to identify the risk of, the the retention, in terms of, like of course, you gotta make sure you expand your customers after you retain them. And that is directly tied to the how well they're ad hoc and how they're engaged and interacting with the platform, some of number of events that you're tracking. So how how does that look like in terms of your success metrics for customer retention and then expansion? Is there anything, like, you're tracking, like, data wise inside your CRM, any workflow that you've made for your customer success team, not just support? [00:28:14] Andreas Zimmermann: So let's say this depends a bit on the use case. For example, if you're rolling out or buying agent, in in companies. So people need to use it. That's for sure. And there should be no ways around using the agent. But the question is, how well does the agent serve the people? How how often do people need to reach out to, reach out to to, let's say, our our support, for example? And of course, also what we track is how happy are the suppliers on the other side. So it's not only about the buyers and the requestors. It's also about, the, the suppliers because this is also something we track. We should make it attractive for the suppliers to be very easily onboarded to just, let's say, submit their offers to do the negotiation and, of course, also getting their feedback and and look for their happiness. This is, of course, also what we track and where we also do surveys and trying to figure out, especially coming, of course, from the in the first place, but also then serving the people and asking for, alright. What do you what do you like and what do you not like, and what can we do to improve? [00:29:26] Adil Saleh: Okay. And anything that, you pick on brands like in so many things that, a procurement manager can also say about suppliers, like what kind of suppliers we need, what kind of improvements we need, what kind of quality measures, you know, we need in the sourcing, while using my supply. So do you also collect some feedback from, from the from the supplier perspective, from the procure procurement manager? [00:29:48] Andreas Zimmermann: Absolutely. Absolutely. Interesting. Yeah. That's that's important because, basically, even though we are just, let's say, working on behalf of the buyer and we are providing a platform. Yeah. Basically, it's it's a platform where everybody is it's just working if all the sites are pretty happy in the very end. And so we should also all have all these three focus groups, of course, mainly in mind. So all these three customers basically that we're dealing with. So to to make them to make them happy and, let's say, feel them comfortable on the platform. Sometimes, of course, it's it's hard to onboard new suppliers. So not everybody is directly welcome. Let's say just or willing to to register though there is these cases, but we try to do as as good as somehow possible to make it as easy as as possible and pretty much be very clear that it's that it's not a nightmare where they're starting with my supply. So that's very easy, and they have good chances to get great business using my supply and not starting a nightmare where they need a three day training to to understand how to submit an offer. [00:30:57] Adil Saleh: I love the fact that you're trying to make it as self serve as possible for both suppliers, procurement managers. And, you know, regular like, there's there's gonna be people that are, this have, like, one person backed warehouses that are willing to sell, especially in the real estate segment. They're doing a lot. Like, these property developers and, you know, manufacturers, they actually have their own items listed. There's there's a lot of platforms out in the in The US that are doing this, like enabling suppliers to upload their items and, negotiate with with the buyers and negotiate with the with the construction companies. Perfect. So now thinking about from a lens of, a go to market side of things, you know, of course, you must have a CRM. You know, let's say, what kind of CRM are you using? Is that Pipedrive, HubSpot, like, mostly Dynamics. Dynamics. So now I realize I'm I'm speaking to someone in the Europe. So dynamics. So this is what I use. So, you know, all the customer interactions are that is your source of record for all of your, customer facing product and marketing team? [00:32:02] Andreas Zimmermann: Yes. So that's basically especially everything market related, sales related, marketing related, that's pretty much on for us, it's it's on Dynamics. Right? [00:32:12] Adil Saleh: Okay. Perfect. And, I mean, I'm not so much, knowledgeable around the CRM dynamics, because I didn't speak to a lot of Europeans, mostly. So, like, how is it it is integratable, like, integration friendly, when it comes to having third party sources, having, integrations or data points coming or populated, from the product team, like platforms that people use for product analytics, like Amplitude, you know, these mixed panels. So, because it's for for from a go to market standpoint to be able to expand those customers, let's say the the success what I've I've perceived so far during our conversation is for procurement vendors to have as many sources that they can add, it's good for for the customer health. Like, they you want them to, you know, source more products. Right? For suppliers, Saleh as the case, like, you want, those suppliers to add more items, to be, of course, up for the negotiation and, you know, up to for procurement's buyers to, you know, view, those suppliers. So there's a number that you're after, and you want that number to be increased to be able to, you know, expand those customers or, on a on a base level to retain and then expand those customer business. So, from the go to market standpoint, how that is all happening inside the CRM in terms of data, all of that, you know, giving insights to customer facing teams? [00:33:37] Andreas Zimmermann: So, So, of course, on the one hand, of course, the data, that we use within the system and right now, we have our own reports of understanding how usage is on the especially on the on the customer side with on the platform. We use the CRM, so the dynamics mainly, of course, for the for the outreach, for everything marketing and sales related. But there's pretty much a lot of common, things you can do also. Of course, it's even it's a kind of a complicated Andreas huge tool. There are so there's a lot of integration possibility. It is not like a bit of plug and play like Pipedrive and HubSpot. But let's say there is a there's a high potential of, customizing dynamics, and you can get a lot of data in. You can work with power apps and so on and so forth. And also, let's say, also in in, in in dynamics, even though it's by far not the most user friendly tool on Earth, that's for sure. You have a lot of AI integrations coming more and more with Microsoft Copilot and so. And if you're kind of in the Microsoft bubble as we kind of are using Teams and and and so on and so forth, there's a lot of also integration possibilities here staying in this ecosystem of Microsoft. And of course, even though let's say, that's that's also has his downsides, and in in some some cases, not everybody is so happy with the with the user friendliness, but the possibilities that comes out of being in these ecosystems is also quite big. [00:35:10] Adil Saleh: Right. Absolutely. I I 100% agree with this because Google has failed to be, you know, make, make make it as an ecosystem. Like, Google Workspace says Google Meets, versus, you know, Microsoft as an ecosystem is is a superb Adil for teams, that are, working in collaboration, in one, one sort of, sort of platform that enables them to communicate instantly, do the meetings, record the meetings, have all the data, communicate with the customer, have their customer, data, all of that data as a source of truth. And then, of course, usability and fairness is just about human psychology. Like, you get to use it six months to a year. A lot of things that you'll get used to. And a lot of these companies that speak about, like, the user friendliness and UI and experience wise, they haven't used it enough. So that's the thing. They've been using Slack and Google, you know, Gmail, Slack, you know, Zoom, all these years. And, you know, it's just about human psychology. It's more about that, less about the user experience. [00:36:11] Andreas Zimmermann: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And in in the end, of course, if you have different requirements and so on, it it basically depends pretty much on the company. If you're if you're happy with a very standardized process exactly the way, especially if it comes to sales forecast and everything of that kind. If you're happy with the standard, another solution, a very very easy solution can be very helpful. If you're looking for something a bit more advanced, so let's say at least there's a lot of possibilities using a tool like Dynamics. [00:36:42] Adil Saleh: So do you guys also have an ability to create your custom objects like people like sales team do or product teams do inside Salesforce, you know, for different kind of funnels that they can do for the customer interaction. Because a lot of this would be, you know, I'm sure you're already doing it, like, making sure you track the customer interactions, like, click on manager, what they're doing, how they're doing it, what's the health, how regularly they're actively using the platform, what how we what can we could do to, you know, make them, you know, you know, shape the product feature, feature retention, so much of this. There there is so much, that you can do only when you track your user interactions right, in the right way for be it for product team or customer facing team. So do you have these capabilities inside, inside Microsoft? [00:37:31] Andreas Zimmermann: Let's say we're not using them right now, but, there is, of course, a lot of modules that you can also get with Microsoft to especially for user interaction. I know that there are a lot of, features. We have not been using that for now as I said. But let's say, if you really want to go deeper and deeper into this and track these possibilities, you for sure have them. So, of course, as a kind of a still early stage startup, we have been looking for other things. So, for example, for us, it was very key for having very successful, customer support that is pretty much working, that we are very clear about if there is a ticket, what to do, very short response time, and everything of that kind. That was right now key. Getting more and more into the user actions and connecting it more and more also to to increase, the the product, let's say, shaping. That's that's still a topic, which is basically on the agenda, but that's not active for now. [00:38:35] Adil Saleh: Okay. Perfect. Perfect. Okay. So, last thing before I set you free regarding, your penetration towards the North American market, What is like, what are you thinking as a chief executive, and how is that gonna be possible in terms of, you know, investments? Let's say you're gonna invest more into the networking and and more into the, like, digital marketing, like, outbound and intent based marketing or, you know, you know, paid marketing. There's so many ways that you can, get in in front of the, North American market starting from, you know, very small. So what is that plan if there is any plan? [00:39:12] Andreas Zimmermann: Yes. So we are pretty much working or, let's say, aim to work very closely with SAP because SAP is also a very, of course, a huge play, not only in Europe, but also in The US especially. And, of course, SAP Ariba software is it's coming from The US. So we are work closely also with the SAP term. This is the reason, as I said, I was in Las Vegas, last year, and we will also, go to New York City, let's say, also most likely in in in June and interact also closely with the SAP team to also step by step also, start moving, increasing the sales in The US. And I, of course, pretty much think there is, some a lot of potential, working with this, with this market. But I think it's easy to burn a lot of money there just just building up a side and go ahead. So I think it needs to be all to the right timing. And for us, it's supposed to okay. When we are having a few customers over, then we will step by step also go the next step. Yeah. So, let's say it's at first, from my perspective, important to to gain some significant, business over there and then go next steps, and not to move too early also to to The US, because you can it's a complete different world also coming from Europe, and you need to learn a lot about this, and it's it's not just made on a Friday afternoon. [00:40:42] Adil Saleh: Yeah. Absolutely. You gotta make sure that you make a slow and strategic, transition when it comes to the marketing and messaging and understanding the customers. And, I mean, product wise, it's not gonna be as different as you mentioned in the beginning as well. Like, of course, they will process it and a lot of these pain points just gonna be similar, but how they operate as as business, businesses and how, you know, how to acquire customers, there's gonna be a, you know, certain playbook that you gotta make sure that you understand across different industries. [00:41:09] Adil Saleh: So good luck with that, and, I wish great success, you know, to you as personally as as a executive officer and as as a product and the way that we you know, are you guys interested in raising funds with VCs or Adrian? [00:41:22] Andreas Zimmermann: Yes. We will do a a let's say, kind of a seed round also mid of the year. So this is where what we're looking into. Right now, doing a little little side bridge because right now, it's pretty much, so if you do is kind of a big round, it keeps you busy all day long for at least three to four months. And for now, our time is on sales and product. And right now, this is what we're doing, and this is what we really focus on doing, making the product, let's say, even better, finding the right customers, and then, let's say, having a before looking after that. [00:42:01] Adil Saleh: Yeah. I mean, you'll think about raising funds depending on, you know, when is the right time. [00:42:06] Andreas Zimmermann: Yeah. Absolutely. [00:42:07] Adil Saleh: I wish you good luck with that as well because I did it for a lot of a lot of these, founders, they, they chase funds for the wrong reasons. And, I love, the way you're approaching it. You you're focusing on product and sales, and, you know, like, it's funding raising funds is just a byproduct. And, you know, when it is the right time for you, you build up and and the right terms and conditions, you'll have the right, right right right people, right VC firms reaching you out. [00:42:35] Andreas Zimmermann: Absolutely. Best funding is the funding coming from customers. And, so, that's basically what we're most likely looking for. And the goal of a company is not is not raising VC money. Of course, it it's necessary for having further growth, but the the the business is focusing on customers and, not not on funds. [00:42:58] Adil Saleh: Perfect. Okay. Andreas, it was really, really nice meeting you. I love the energy and, you know, the openness of, you know, the way you're approaching this, this this market and this problem and, you know, working closely with the customer. So being customer centric is is is super, important in your industry as I know, and I've learned a lot, from you today. Thank you very much for your time. [00:43:21] Andreas Zimmermann: Likewise. Thank you very much for having me. Have a nice one. Bye.