Ep #141: Turning Meeting Data into Organizational Gold ft. Ramsey Pryor (CEO, Rumi.ai)

Adil Saleh 0:03 Hey, greetings, everybody. This is Hyperengage podcast Adil your host. And, you know, it was long time coming. We've been seeing conversational AI generate AI in general, evolving quite messy in the last, I would say, 13 to 14 months, some new players coming from China. You know, some big movements going in the opening, I cutting the cost of the APIs. You know, I see that like platforms that are more towards, like, conversational side of things, intelligence conversational or chat intelligence side of things, they're, they're evolving at a really, really fast pace. And the competition is getting bigger and bigger. The industry is saturating. Begin in a very big way. A lot of VCs that we get to talk they are also like thinking, hey, we've invested, like almost all the big VCs, they have invested in one platform that is truly based on the conversational AI. And that is why we are trying to explore more that, how they're evolving, how they're playing it differently, marketing wise, commercial from a commercial standpoint, as well as as the product side. And so that is why we have the chief executive of rooming AI, that is one of the bigger players in AI meeting. You know, intelligence, I would say that the intelligence that comes from the meeting conversation as well as chat and tasks and summaries, and, you know, we'll, of course, get to know more about it. Thank you very much, Ramsay for taking the time. Thank you, ado. It's my pleasure. Love that. So now thinking about you sitting and building this platform back in 2020 I know that it's only four years on the paper, but you know, a lot has changed. How do you see it differently now compared to, you know, when we started? Ramsey Pryor 1:41 Yeah, well, actually, Rumi was born during the pandemic, and in response to the pandemic, when everybody was forced to do their job virtually, we all felt the pain of trying to do what we used to do in person over video conferencing. And so that was really the inspiration behind starting roomie, which was known as weight room at the time, and the founding team spent a lot of time thinking, what could be a lot better. We have amazing technology these days, and I think in the early days, everyone was trying to just recreate what happened in person over video conference, and we just felt very quickly that's not going to work, that fails. And there's some things about being in person you just can't recreate. And frankly, we felt like there's a lot about virtual meetings that are quite a bit better than an in person, traditional meeting. And so rather than trying to recreate something that you can't quite recreate, we started thinking a lot more about, how can you combine the two experiences and take full advantage of technology and add that into the meeting and give people more time to focus on the thing that people are actually good at, which is, you know, building relationships and paying attention to each other. So that really was the impetus behind Rumi, and four years later, we've been iterating around that idea. There was a lot of experimentation in the early days about how technology could augment the actual real time experience of a meeting. So we built a heads up display. So rather than just getting a summary or notes after the call, we have a heads up display in our meeting platform that in real time is parsing everything that's being said, categorizing it, and then bringing that back into the meeting experience. So that's one of the things that we started innovating around. And that was really right about the time that chat GPT, or GPT 3.0 came out. And so we were an early adopter and user of that technology. And then we start further. We started thinking, Okay, why are we going to wait until the meeting's over to start actually taking action on all the action items? So we built integrations into clickup and slack and asana and CRMs, so that as action items pop up in the feed in real time, you can just send those off to linear, send those off to your team and click up or slack. There's no need to wait until the meeting is over, if it's clear what should be done. So that was kind of we've been evolving down that path. And probably the biggest innovation and the biggest factor that we're on right now is since so many of us spend hours per day in online meetings, and that's clearly not changing. Ramsey Pryor 4:25 It's really mind blowing to us that most of that data has been completely discarded, and humans are really poor at remembering things. AI is amazing at remembering everything. So the biggest idea we're working on is, how can we give people the superpower of perfect recall and give companies the superpower of perfect institutional memory. And that's, that's really where innovation is right now, four years later, Adil Saleh 4:52 very interesting. And I mean, thinking about this idea, I know that, you know, we'll definitely kill down these use cases like. Adil Saleh 4:59 Specific to industries. And of course, in B to B Tech, there are, like so many use cases, everybody's, you know, every team member is having meetings. So of course, for a platform to be very specific and intelligent and customized and specialized, you know, for that use case, it has become harder and harder with, I mean, not just the competition and not just a lot of tools that people are stacking up their workflows with. But also, you know, to making sure that they get like, sort of like only meeting if a sales intelligence team is using a sales intelligence platform, sales intelligence platform is also trying to having, having a sort of a one stop shop that they don't use any other tool, adjacent tool. So it becomes quite complicated for the end consumer when it comes to, you know, taking notes from the meeting. And as you mentioned, the memory and recall. I think this is something really different. So could you tell us more about, like, you know, of course, comparing it some of the use cases that we can talk about here. Ramsey Pryor 5:59 Yeah, well, I guess the first observation that we had is that the tools out there and in the world that did recording and did conversational intelligence, as you mentioned, were pretty functionally specific and tuned. And as a sales leader, I used a lot of those tools myself and for mainly for sales coaching, for optimizing your sales team and your training, but I think sales teams were just the first to recognize the power of recording all your conversations. But we really feel like that's the tip of the iceberg. Internal calls have as much insight and gold within them as external conversations, but typically your product team, your legal team, your talent team, they don't have those same tools. So our approach at Rumi has been to build recording capabilities that can serve all the different functions within the organization and can extract as much gold out of meeting data based on internal meetings, as you are used to doing with customer facing meetings and that sort of thing. Ramsey Pryor 7:08 And then the really most important part of this is rather than just being able to see my own recordings, or, let's say, my sales recordings are over here when everyone in a company has a meeting, and all of that data goes into a centralized repository that anyone can access. That's when you're actually harnessing institutional knowledge in one place, and that becomes an ever growing and and very up to date knowledge base for the entire company. And we're just starting to explore what all you can do with that and our customers are but just as an example, within a few months, meeting memory at the institute or at the company level becomes really more knowledgeable than any individual employee, because it's listened into all of your product conversations, all your customer conversations, all of your all hands meetings. So after a few months, you can start asking questions like, what's our GDPR policy? Or, hey, you've listened to all of our dev stand ups. Can you just write our release notes for us and give me a version I can give to a customer in this industry that would speak to them? It's amazing how much information passively gets stored in memory, and once you can tap into that, really, though, what you can do with it is pretty limitless. It's just up to your creativity. Adil Saleh 8:31 It's sort of like, you know, your co pilot here, you can brainstorm with and you can ask different questions that they can actually analyze different information and context to those conversations or those, of course, data, it's just database or AI, it's just the data. So it needs to, of course, make it contextual, to be more intelligent. And then, of course, you know, serving different use cases. So are you talking about, you know, you building like Rumi, building their own co pilots for that are specialized for different teams within the organization. And then they can, of course, assign them different tasks, and they can, you know, get things done vertical agents like agent Ki, that's a very big thing you want to put talk more about it. Ramsey Pryor 9:13 Yeah, I think what we want to start with is a broad approach that can work for really any functional team, and we use a couple of different llms under the hood and AI tools that do a very good job of if you give it the context, and it can give you Ramsey Pryor 9:33 responses and context back. That's very appropriate for the role. But like you said, the most important thing is giving it the context, who am I? What's my job? And based on that, give me an answer that makes a lot of sense for me. And the great thing about meeting memory is that it does know who I am. You can even type in, who am I, and it'll say you're Ramsay prior the CEO. And then the next question is, okay, knowing that and knowing this is my. Ramsey Pryor 9:59 Question, what's the answer? And it takes that into consideration quite well. So we don't feel like it's necessary Ramsey Pryor 10:09 to sort of get really specific by function on that level where we where we're thinking a lot, though, is what tools, what other tools do people in a certain given function use, and we want to make sure that we can take meeting data in and out of the two other tools that those people need to use. So we've built a lot of integrations for support teams, for talent teams and so forth. That seems like something we really need to specialize in, but the context, like I said, especially once it has a few weeks or months of your data, is very good at understanding how to give you results. You can even ask, you know, someone to we can ask Rumi to create a memo in my voice, and it's heard me speak enough in meetings that it does a really good job. Adil Saleh 10:58 Yeah, it does. It does. And you know, to do it at scale for all of your customers. Like, are you guys also able to, you know, train or find fine tune these, of course, the AI in general, for all those use cases, for existing customers, data, maybe, if, like, it's there is any enterprise customer, and they have like, 10 different teams using roomy for all of their meetings, and you've got, like, a lot of data so and AI can have, like, really be efficient for that particular customer to be able to, you know, you know, for the fine tune, is there any kind of machine learning all of that? So how's that going? Yeah, so we never use customer data to train our models, because that would be, you know, sort of a violation of the trust they put in us. Ramsey Pryor 11:42 But I would say the context, the more context that it has about the product that you offer, the type of support questions that come in when sales team, we're dealing with customers, the type of objections that come up, and we can even feed it from your CRM, which deals have been won or lost, and then it can make a correlation between, okay, these are the deals that were won, and here are the patterns that we see. This is almost answering the big question in sales of, why do we win? Why do we lose? You can ask those types of questions. And on the hiring side, you can do the same. You can say, Ramsey Pryor 12:21 when you have all of your candidate interviews in roomy and meeting memory, after a while, you can say, look, these were our best hires. What did we hear in their interview that they all had in common? And then you can use that and play that forward in your hiring process and make sure that you're asking about those things or giving those extra weight. So I would say we're not sort of using customer data to train the models in that way. But the more data that you have, and the more you ask the right questions and say, you know, these are the things that we really need to listen for. Now, when you give me a scorecard for a candidate, but a lot of emphasis on this thing, then you can get pretty amazing results. Adil Saleh 13:04 Amazing, amazing. So also, you know, of course, we spoke about these big problems and how you're approaching it differently, and how the memory plays a bigger part. How do you see the competition? You know, as far as far back I remember, like, it's been like three, three and a half years we're doing the helper we have around four platforms that are only, you know, AI powered meeting systems and these kind of not sure how you know where there are the different stages this loan. So how do you see competition as a chief executive? Ramsey Pryor 13:35 Well, like you said, it is a rapidly evolving space, and every month, there's new capabilities that we can all take advantage of. When the llms put out a big release and it's an exciting time. There's a lot of really smart entrepreneurs thinking about the same problems that we're thinking about. I guess our differentiation and where we want to stay really the best in class is number one. We recognize that meetings happen everywhere. They happen, not just we have a meeting platform of our own, and that puts us in a different category. I think that a lot of the pure note takers, and it has sort of the innovation the AI feed and those integrations that I mentioned, but we also plug into other platforms, because especially if you're working with a sales or success team. You don't get to dictate where the meeting happens. If a customer says, we're meeting on teams, and you're meeting on teams, and you need to have continuity. If I want to go back and say, Okay, we've had 12 meetings with a customer, what are the risks? What are the next steps? I need to be able to follow the team wherever they meet. So for us, omnipresence is really important. We host meetings. We can plug into other meeting platforms. And we also need to recognize that the best meetings still happen in person, and we need to be present there too. So we've built a listening mode within our mobile app. So anytime we're in person, we start the listening mode meeting, and then afterwards, there's a matching exercise, where. Or will give you five or six sentences, and we say, who said this? And I'll say ideal said that. Rams said this. And then it can map that conversation, add it to memory and tie it to all the previous conversations that we've had. So for us, the thing that we need to continue to be leading in is continuity, when meetings happen all over the place. Can I follow one person or group of people across all those platforms? And secondly, as meeting memory grows in size, and you have 1000s or 10s of 1000s of meetings, and someone's going in and asking a question when you have a few meetings, it's pretty easy to answer that question when you have 1000s of meetings, and I say, Hey, what did a deal? And I say, last time, maybe now I've met with 10 ideals. And you know, it's clear to you what you mean, but we are trying to make it really easy to disambiguate queries and prompts, and we're working on a lot of things so that you don't even have to ask the question. We know the things that you care about, and we're going to give you the information that you need whenever there's a change Adil Saleh 16:05 interesting. Because, of course, it's, I mean, the only way that these New Age platforms can beat the competition and stand out is, is, is, of course, making omnipresent is one thing that is super important too. And in person meeting is something that is that has yet, you know, has so much to improve and transform over time, intelligence wise. And then rest is all about how intelligent. You know, you can be like, you know, train your AI co pilot's agents, whatever, but you gotta be made sure the efficiency level of efficiency needs to meet. So how do you see cost? I know that you're not, you know that, like you're not an engineering leader CTO, but you know how you're optimizing the cost at scale, memory and storage, that is one part. But to do the AI queries and all of that for all of these meetings, I know it's quite big, like from a generative AI standpoint, from APIs call standpoint, the cost of thing, because I know that this competition, I've seen people founders coming here, and we are free forever, like we are the AI meeting platform, not charging them. So there are loads in the market, as well as how you're optimizing cost, you know, for for, you know, so SMB customers that have, like, loads of meetings, they're paying small, Ramsey Pryor 17:20 yeah, I think that we don't want to get into a race to the bottom where we just devalue what we do and kind of make every you know, the people that make things for free. I get why you do that, to come in and try to get market share, but I think for what I think about is meeting data is absolutely chock full of gold, and until now, we've thrown that giant pile of data away. And if we do an excellent job of helping people extract that gold, then there's a lot of value. And if we can quantify that, and we can show that you've, you know, closed 10 more deals this quarter than you would have, or you've made decisions much better and much more quickly. And most importantly, you've changed your behavior because we've shown you an insight. Then we believe that there's actually tremendous value. These tools are so much better than anything we've ever had before. So when I think about cost and value, I think about, first, give us enough time, and we will show you where all the gold is in your data. And once we've done that, then, you know, we will make sure you're getting multiples of value relative to what you're caught, your what we charge, or what you're paying for that. Adil Saleh 18:40 Wow, amazing. And that is, of course, you know, these, these custom plans and enterprise plans that you have for bigger teams that also applies to that, that how you're helping them perceive the value outside of just, you know, you know, recording the meetings and summaries and getting, getting them on Slack, like takeaways on slacks and emails. You know, it's just beyond that. So when it comes to go to market, I know you talked a little bit about customer success, you know, the component of rooming, so how you're using it internally for all of the customers, maybe in different segments, like in the SMB, you have customer success managers, how you leveraging data and data driven decisions and analytics and action driven analytics that are driving actions within your teams, be it Customer Success teams or account managers, account executives or this post sales team. So what in a nutshell, what kind of tech stack you have, and what kind of workflow Do you guys have? A lot of G team leaders listen to this will definitely Ramsey Pryor 19:37 well in terms of keeping an eye on how our product is being adopted and usage and that sort of thing. We use a combination. We use. Mixed panel is probably our number one. We're putting all of our data into segment, and then we can feed a lot of different services. But our success team looks at Mixpanel every day, and we look at the main metrics that we look at are you. How many meetings are each of our customers having? How many times are they going into meeting memory and extracting that gold out of their meeting data? And if we see as customers on board, there's a lot of education that we need to do. The habit of every time I prepare for a meeting, going into meeting memory and saying I'm about to meet with so and so. Tell me where we left off last time, and really quickly, tell me what I should focus on this time. That's a behavior that needs to be taught. And then, after a meeting, using AI to Hey, I just met with five people, draft an email to each of them with the takeaways specific to who they are and what they care about. Those are things we have to train in and we watch, you know, the sort of the ratio of meeting memory usage per meeting to make sure that they're building these new behaviors and taking full advantage. And if we see that someone's slow to take off, then we will jump in and offer a workshop. We have some prompt guides that will help people get started with some fun ones too. It's not just, you know, we want to make it fun, and not just all work of you know, how do I, you know, accomplish something really nitty gritty, but we you can actually learn a lot about how you show up at meetings. And so we give people prompts to say, what kind of meeting persona am I and who do I vibe with most within my team, who do I seem to listen to the most? Who do I need to talk to more? Give more talking time to there's quite a lot of personal insights you can learn. But I think a combination of getting people curious about the themselves and their customers and how they can use these tools, if we can tap into that, then we start seeing those numbers really taking off. Adil Saleh 21:44 Okay, that's, that's, that's amazing. Like thinking about your post sales teams. Most of them like taking some notes from mixed panels, and, of course, some meetings. A lot of that is, of course, I do agree that from the last 10 years, a lot of these new age data companies that are serving in the GTM frame frameworks, they are more focused on on the, on the on the on the quantitative data. They're not so much focused on the qualitative data when people meet, like on coffee tables or maybe in person meetings. And now they've started, they've started to realize, like a lot of these, especially in the mid market to enterprise segment it is. It has more to do with how people communicate what kind of intent you're actually buying from, from the customer, and what kind of engagements, level of engagement. So translation needs to go how it gets like, articulated across different things. When you meet executives, it's not just about the usage of the platform. It's not just about like, how often they're using and getting logged into your platform, it's, it's more about the about the qualitative data as well. So in your case, how you're, of course, keeping that aligned with the quantitative data in terms of, like, using the platform, interactions within the platform, from a customer success standpoint, like, of course, the value needs to be delivered in the in the quickest time possible, the time to value is super important, and making sure the people are pretty much adopted the platform as soon as possible. So like, how is that being measured within your post sales? I would say, if not customer success, Ramsey Pryor 23:17 I think I let me, let me take a pass at this, and you can tell them if that addresses the question, but when we engage with a customer, we'll often ask them, Why? Why now? Why are you looking at this type of AI capability right now? And I think right now, the common theme that we hear is there are so many tools popping up that it's actually very hard for customers to know what's out there. How often they should be changing tools or looking at what's out there, because they have a business to run, right? So for some people, they have, I mean, I saw recently, I think HubSpot put out a mandate like this, is this needs to be reflexive every task you do, you should start by asking, like, isn't there a tool right now that can do this in seconds? So we love that, but you can't spend all of your time thinking about tooling. You need to get Keep your core business going. And so as we ask that question, one of the things we find is that so people will survey the market, they'll pick a tool that is next generation, but then they need to get back to work, and very few of them have the time to take full advantage of what the tool they chose can do. And I think that's where we can step in. And we are extremely heavy touch in the early days. If we can do three in person onboarding calls for one hour, we'll do it because it's so important for us to, like I was mentioning, to change a little bit of behavior, but we want to get them all the way to value. And there's so many, if you're buying 10 tools, how many are going to get that far with? Probably not all of them. And if they don't get all the way to value with us, then nobody wins. Adil Saleh 25:01 Uh, absolutely and making sure that, of course, the technology and the product and experience is sticky enough, because a lot of these, as you mentioned, you're absolutely right. Like, people are not just evaluating one tool these days, like, especially in this segment, they're, like, evaluating three or four different tools so, and they're married to none, like, they need to evaluate both. And it's quite a pink it's quite a, quite a lot of work. So for, for, you know, customer success managers and VP of sales and all these, these folks. So I know that it's buying their time is harder. But again, getting them, you know, stick in is equally important, and that's what you guys are doing. Like, is it like for, let's talk about SMB to mid market. Is it like any kind of, like digital touch initially, like, what's the motion Ramsey Pryor 25:47 in terms of onboarding or success? Adil Saleh 25:49 Yes, yeah, in terms of onboarding, and then, sure. So in Ramsey Pryor 25:53 some cases, we've actually gone on site to do an onboarding, and this is in the early days of a startup. It's so important to see pain you. It's one thing. You can't just pull a product off the shelf, launch it in the world and hope that it hits the nail for everyone. It's not like that. And so we had a pretty good MVP, and we put it out there. But in the early days of, you know, selling and selling your first deals and working with customers, we need to read the room in person. This is another example of you can't do that over video conferencing of any type. So we sat down with one of our early customers and watched them use it. And we had a couple of sessions where we said, magic wand. You've now seen the tool. You know your job better than we do if you were head of product. What would you build for yourself right now? And we get amazing ideas coming out of that, and that then feeds us, you know, feeds our roadmap, and gives us a lot of direction. And there's so many directions that you can go right now, because there's so many possibilities, right? We're from the technology, so we feel like if we are the closest to our customers, then we're going to nail it for them, and we're going to nail it for everybody else. So that's that's been our approach. In fact, in half an hour, we're going to do an Ask Me Anything session with one of our customers, and we're going to hear a day in their life and how they have adopted roomy to do their job better. And when our product team and our engineering team hears that firsthand and gets to ask them questions. Like, Well, tell me more about like, where you spend the time that you think is low value. And we hear that directly, then all sorts of ideas pop up. But if we were just building to our own patterns and what we think is interesting, it's so easy to miss the mark. Adil Saleh 27:39 Very interesting. Like, it's all about seeing, like, where you can make the most impact. And it's just not about solving the big problems. And it's not just about solving, you know, their time that is super needed for them. It's, it's, it's more about, you know, saving them time that is that can be put in different to somewhere more impactful, and it's, it's, it's not as as valuable as the children. You can automate that and listing it from folks and hearing their workflows like day in, day out. That's super important. 100% agree with it. First nail it and then scale it and know your customer deep down, sit in the level, walk down in their shoes, and make sure you do it like and now thinking about, you know, all of this internal processes that you have at broomie, I know that you have some post sales team, marketing team as well, like, what kind of workflows you have towards the success of the customer, how you're basically measuring the expansion and, of course, the churn risk and all of that. You know, by using technology, using I'm sure you've sent you mentioned some features that are absolutely, really built within roomy as well. So if there is any way you're leveraging your own product for that Ramsey Pryor 28:51 going along, we absolutely do. So all of our meetings, internally and externally, we're first off, we're a fully remote company, and we are spread out across. You know, we're not a huge team, but we are very spread out. We have people in Africa, Asia, Europe and Americas. So we use meeting memory for absolutely every conversation, internal and external. So one of the strongest signals we have is just that memory bank. And if we're going to have a onboarding call or a QBR with one of our customers. The first step is, okay, tell me everything about this customer. What did we talk about last time? What are their What were their main concerns? And then we'll use that to go into our systems, record of into mix panel, into post hog, into all the things that give us, I guess, the data driven view of their relationship with that relationship and marry the two. What have we heard subjectively, and what are we seeing in the data? And what does that tell us we need to focus on with them? That's how we prepare for a customer update call or a customer onboarding session, or a renewal conversation, or Q. Are, and we use that to build an internal dashboard, red, yellow, green, of like, how are each of our customers doing? And part of that is subjective, and we'll bring in meeting quotes from meeting memory, and we'll get the themes, and then part of that is data driven and objective, and we'll we'll have sort of a graph of their meeting history, their meeting memory usage, their net retention. How many users have they added? That's the biggest sign of health for us is when they're growing and using the platform like crazy. Adil Saleh 30:31 And that goes like from all the segments, like, from small to mid market to enterprise. Ramsey Pryor 30:36 Yes. I mean, for right now, we are obsessed about our customers of all sizes, and we learn as much. In fact, we can learn more from smaller companies than we can from big ones, because we can go deeper with them and really understand a day in the life. And if again, like, if we can get that right and figure out the low value things that they spend a lot of time on, that can tell us, product wise, how can we help someone who's a success person, someone who's a salesperson, a marketing person, a development person. Adil Saleh 31:08 Interesting, interesting. And also, this is some question that I've written for myself, because I wanted to ask you, in this industry, how do you see the Europe market? I've seen this quite a trend, that it's, it's the most bigger trend in the Europe than in any other country or region. Is the the meeting trend, like in Europe, you might must have observed like they have, like, on average, more than three hours of meeting in in working shift of, let's say, seven hours. So how do you see the European market to, you know, penetrate. I'm sure you must have some customers there too, like and of course, there are some big regulations on the data and security side as well that that comes as as in parcel for that. So how do you see it? As a chief executive, I think that certainly it's a big enough problem. Ramsey Pryor 31:59 It is, for sure. And as anyone who's worked in Europe knows, privacy, GDPR, that is always comes up immediately on the sales side, and then it affects everything thereafter within the regions, I would say, one of the things that we have to keep in mind and that we notice is in the US, we are extremely used to being having recording capabilities. It's been here for a while, and now, when you show up to most meetings, you see two or three note takers that have already joined. We're used to that, for better or for worse, and there's comfort with that. In Europe, especially in certain regions, there's a lot less comfort with meetings being recorded. There is maybe less trust in why an employer is recording a conversation, especially if it's internal. And we see that in Brazil. We see that in Australia, we see that in a lot of places in the world, where there's less of a history of recording meetings and more privacy concerns. My personal view is that there's so much value to having all of your conversations, what we call on the record, when appropriate, you know manager, one on one with their employee, not something you should record, anything sensitive that you you know conversation that you would not want to be accidentally shared or leaked, not something you would record. But if you're doing an all hands meeting, if you're having a sales conversation, if you're having a non confidential success conversation, and you have consent to record that, I think over time, people in every region are going to see the value. And I think the important thing is just establishing boundaries around trust which meetings are recorded. Are you being explicit that it is being recorded? Are you being clear about what's going to happen with the recording data? Are you sharing that data or you just hoarding it for yourself? And I think a lot of the mistrust with AI note takers is like, Oh, here's, you know, ideals AI note taker, but I never get any benefit from that if I'm the participant. Often, like, you're getting all the info, I'm not getting anything out of it. So we think a lot about giving value and transparency to all parties, and that's why, when a meeting happens on rooming, you can see in real time everything that's being recorded and if anything's wrong, or if something changes over the course of the discussion, everybody sees that we've edited what was captured, or we've edited the action item in real time. And so when you get the summary, there's no surprises. There's not like one version that the post gets in a different version that the participant gets, and I think that goes a long way to build that Adil Saleh 34:46 trust. And from the European market, you think that it's just not about about time. And of course, I know their banking and their telco sector has evolved a lot. They've always been, you know, they're they have the different internal tooling, custom. Doing that records all the conversations, all the custom conversations, but perhaps not the internal conversation. But of course, I agree that there is a big thing, security and privacy and comfortable comfortability wise, the Europeans, you know, trying to evolve over time. I think they'll definitely come on this page. Of course, Microsoft meetings is is big in Europe. So a lot of these platforms that are like sales intelligence and meeting intelligence, they're trying to integrate deep, have deep integration with Microsoft Dynamics and all of the Microsoft workspace pretty well to penetrate in the Europe. Perfect. Another question I had for you, Ramsay, was like, how you're thinking about this notion that is going around for quite some time. I see Jason Lemkin when I met him in London last year. Talks about two going about multi product. How do you see it? As a chief executive, but Rumi, I know that at some point, a lot of these, a lot of these tools, are trying to be GTM tools, go to market tools, and they're trying to tap in the, you know, sales success support these kind of processes and organizations, and they try to add more features, maybe set up different products that are adjacent, and they're trying to cross sell and all of that. How do you see that in longer, longer term view, or rooming? Ramsey Pryor 36:18 I think what I've seen is that really, because llms are so powerful, it's made it very easy for companies to blur the boundaries that they previously had between themselves and other parts of the ecosystem. It's very easy to, if you're a sales tool, start thinking about success, or if you're a meeting tool, start thinking about other things you can ingest besides Adil Saleh 36:40 Ramsey. Back in the years, when I started podcast, one of the initial founders I have, they were like, We are absolutely busy focused. We have a pretty much product vision, pretty much written on the wall. Now, they're like, Hey, we can build this too. We can build this too. And we can have another product. We can have another we can have licensing. You know, there's so much that people are thinking about just because the capability of l and m and it is, it has become essential. And for some segments, not for yours, for some segments, it's it has become essential to sustain in the market, because if they don't grow, they're not going to get funds, and it's so hard to bootstrack In some industries. So how do you see it for for for your segment? I wanted to learn more. That's why I'm asking. It's not something that I've you have that, Yeah, mine or I'm driving you towards an answer. It's just a question and open discussion. It Ramsey Pryor 37:26 really is the challenge of the industry. At the moment, any tool can morph into every tool very easily, at least, you know, can try to be that. As a startup founder and sort of in startup land. It's often said, I feel this very much the biggest challenge is focus. And if you get distracted and start thinking, we can go wider, wider, wider, before you've really nailed one thing, then I think you get eaten alive very quickly in every direction, once it looks very attractive. And then when you go deeper, you realize, holy cow, there's 50 companies already in this space, and they are so far ahead of us. And it's an industry I didn't even know existed. And so I think once you are initially, it's very tempting and attractive to think, How can I get really, really wide, but what we think about is what is at our core? What do we believe about the world, and what do we want to be better than everyone at and I think as long as we stay true to that vision, then if there's a natural once we have relationships and customers and they we have their trust and they want us to solve other problems, then we can consider it. But I think you die a very quick death if you try to be everything for everyone. And that's a really tough challenge right now, given how much is possible with all the technology that's out there. Adil Saleh 38:52 Yeah, because there's one, one, I would say once thing that I've noticed like, there's, there's the company that got acquired by content spirit. It was an analytics platform, so it was making sense for them, and now it gives leverage to content spirit to be Multi Product or multi license, just like Salesforce model, how they have defined. And do you think, think any adjacent kind of segment that you can serve really, really well, and you have, you know, don't have, like, a lot of technology debt to build something valuable for that segment, to have it another product, if not a part of the product. Yeah, Ramsey Pryor 39:31 I think for us, when that opportunity has presented itself, it's when we get really close with a customer. And as we're talking about, why again, why did you choose us? Why are you Why now? And what are you actually trying to accomplish and spend more of your human time doing? And what type of work are you trying to offload to? Ai, you can get into some very interesting conversations. And, you know, one recent one that we were in, they said, Listen, if, if. You can solve this for us. This is literally, we've already scaled scoped it. It's like a ten million problem per year that if we, if we solve it, that's what it's going to be worth and to to have done that job. Well, we knew that we would need to bring in actual data science. It's not something that we would just immediately build into a platform and try to scale. It was a it was a pretty specific problem. And so I think our approach to that is, if that opportunity presents itself, we don't need to be a pure, you know, SaaS. SaaS only company. If we can bring in data science or experts to augment the technology that we offer and we nail it for a few companies, then maybe we build a practice around that, but in the early days, we'll just bring in partners or experts to augment the solution that we're bringing Adil Saleh 40:49 interesting. So you're not about like, going Multi Product right away, but you know, have some sort of consultants or professional services to do it right, and maybe at some point you can productize it and keep it as another product, or part of the product perfect. So we're sitting here in the first quarter, 2025, pretty early, but pretty exciting times. What makes you excited be like part of some something sitting in the product roadmap, a feature, any segment that you're thinking of penetrating, any industry that you're trying you guys are trying to tap. What makes you excited in 2025 Ramsey Pryor 41:26 for me, the most exciting thing is in this evolution of, how do you apply AI to meetings and meeting data, and how do you show people the gold that's in their meeting data? This is definitely going to be an evolution. And I would say we're internally, we're on kind of v4 of this and taking this further and further. And in some ways, we're very far ahead of where our customers are, and we have to bring this them along this journey. But what we're realizing is that once you have, you know, 1000s and 1000s of meetings in your memory, what you really need to do is just ask people. Tell me what you care about, and then whenever there's a change, we're going to let you know that way, when you wake up and you know we're a distributed team, I think the first hour of a distributed teams morning is spent trying to read 1000 different Slack channels and emails and put together this picture of what happened while I was sleeping and what's changed, and that's anxiety provoking. It's inefficient, and it's sort of like, I feel like I'm reading an article, but instead of reading an article, I'm just reading the comments, and I'm trying to I'm like, What's the headline and what's the news here? And so what we're working on right now, which we call X ray, is exactly that you tell us the projects or the things that you care about. And you tell us the format, you know, maybe you want a an executive summary, two sentence, TLDR, of what happened, what's changed, and then a little more detail underneath that, and then the kitchen sink below that. And then, anytime there is a change to that, you'll get an alert. You can come back to a ever growing document, or, you know, sort of a living document that updates itself, and it'll be very clear what has changed. And that way, if I'm paying attention to three deals, a marketing push, and, you know, a few Customer Success renewals, then that's what I want to know about. When I wake up, I just see these are the 10 things I care about, what's changed. What can I do? So that's kind of what we're working on right now, having a smart Adil Saleh 43:21 360 view of all the actions you need to take, and then having some sort of insights into, you know, how to take those actions. What that do? What do I need to do next? I mean, it's just about like having to have the next spec section right in front of you, you know, rather like juice, going and scrolling like, you know, through different technologies and different channels, and consumes a lot of time. And that goes for all the you know, anybody in any workflow, be it Success Manager, account executive, product team, be it tech team, software team, be it founders, leaders, perfect, interesting. And any initiative are you guys thinking of, you know, taking around the team and culture? I know that you're just little over 25 people strong team. And any initiatives are you guys thinking of, maybe some wellness fund? Maybe it can be anything, training and management, new roles that you guys are thinking of including in the next quarter? Ramsey Pryor 44:23 Yeah, thanks for asking. Culture is so important for us, and I've just learned so many times that that is the thing that that does scale, especially when you're an internationally distributed team, knowing who you are and what type of people you want to attract and the cultural values that you want to really build and sustain that's the most it's one of the most important things that we think about. We just did our annual pulse survey. We call it, and so we try to understand, what are we doing? Well, why are people happy to be here? What can we do more of and that actually leads to the medium. To in 10 minutes, what we one of the things that came out is everybody in the entire team being really closer to our customers and really understanding them better. And so one of the initiatives is this, Ask Me Anything session, so that instead of just seeing in Slack, hey, this is the new customer we have. This is their industry. This is how they're using roomy we actually get to hear live from them, and it does wonders, like we're going to hear things that we never would have heard, pain points, get product ideas that we never would have had the insight if we didn't have this kind of real time exposure to our customers. And I think it goes a long way to build their trust and to meet more of our team. Adil Saleh 45:42 Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was so inspiring to know, like, how roomy is different than most, because it took us a lot of time to, you know, screen the right product, getting into the technology. One of our team members might have logged into your product and see, like, how you know this, this has been presented differently and how people perceive value out of these meeting. Knows that is, and I know, but end of this conversation I had, I got to learn a lot about about, you know, how in different ways you can serve customers while using the same technology with the back end and doing it at scale is super important. I really appreciate that you opened up very much in a concrete way. And you know, it was so much for me to learn and everybody else listening to this. Thank you very much for your time. Ramsey, oh, Ramsey Pryor 46:29 I really enjoyed it. Thanks so much. Ideal for having me on. I appreciate it. You.