Ep # 180: The Consensus Architect: What Modern Selling Actually Demands ft. Cristina De La Cruz (CRO, ISG Partners)

Cristina De La Cruz 0:05 When there were times where, you know, we didn't have a lot of starts on the board, or it was a slower month, I was picking up the phone and, you know, constantly creating noise, you know, within the branch. And I think that that activity breeds and yields additional activity on the team. Intro 0:20 Welcome to Across the Funnel, where we dig into concrete Go-To-Market moves across sales, customer success, and account management so you can build revenue that lasts. Brought to you by Hyperengage and Dextego. Ioanna Onasi 0:35 Cristina, welcome. Thank you for joining us on Across the Funnel. How are you doing today? Cristina De La Cruz 0:40 I'm doing well. Thank you so much for having me. Ioanna Onasi 0:43 Amazing. Amazing. I'm excited to learn more about your career. I think you spent plenty of years in the recruiting and staffing space, right? But I'm curious, because I've been hearing a lot from different people, especially with the AI tools, like how fast the space is evolving. So I'm curious, on a high level too, if you can walk us through your career, what led you to this field, and is it what you expected it to be? Tell me a little bit about the space in general. Cristina De La Cruz 1:11 No, happy to share my journey. It’s so it's crazy to think, so this summer, I'm actually celebrating 20 years in the people talent and recruiting space. So I started about 20 years ago with a large publicly traded company, and I was there for 15 years. So I started out in the branch in San Francisco, working a full desk. I quickly realized that I preferred the sales and the business development side of the rotation and kind of the function. And then, from there, I was in seven different roles. So that's really where, you know, I learned the different verticals as it relates to contract staffing, project based solutions, the direct hire side, strategic accounts, and really that enterprise sell. And then I decided, it was actually during COVID, to make a change. I think that, again, the industry was changing, the world was changing, and I decided to join a privately held organization that really focused on the engineering and go to market side as well as creative marketing. And so I really helped to build that sales team and that sales org, and I was there for about five years, and then decided to make a change, also at a very kind of inflection point in the industry, when AI is very prevalent. It has been, but I think it's obviously at the forefront of how organizations are trying to be innovative and to grow. And so I joined my current company, ISG Partners, and they take a different approach to talent and partnership. We're an embedded recruitment firm, so we call it talent as a service. And so our embedded recruiters are on loan staff to organizations as they're looking to hyperscale and grow. And so I think that this allows, especially in this world of AI and these tools, to really have that human centric approach as it relates to engagement and as it relates to hiring. And so our recruiters are embedded within the teams, and they're an extension of these organizations' HR and talent teams. And if they don't have that function, they're really there to help bridge that gap and bring top talent into the organization. So like most people, I fell into recruiting, and here I am 20 years later. Ioanna Onasi 3:31 Yeah, I get to hear a lot about that, also from sellers, like how no one really chooses to have a sales career, but somehow they get their first job, and then they end up loving it and staying. To me, sales and recruitment have so much in common. Like, you end up having to sell a position or a product or service, handle objections, right? It's the same thing. You build a relationship. You have to get them to renew, like maybe they want to hire someone else next. So it's really connected. These are transferable skills. So tell me a bit about the sales org. Now you have six reps under you. Like, are they a mix of junior and senior? Are they full cycle reps? How is the organization structured? Cristina De La Cruz 4:17 So our go to market and sales organization, they are tenured individuals that have the staffing and recruiting background in their experience. And so we are very diligent and surgical as it relates to, as we're selling the solution and partnering with our clients, really helping to, again, understand the full picture as it relates to, from a people and talent perspective, there are different solutions, right? So we're really able to be consultative in the sense of, again, you may have tried the contingent side. It may or may not have worked in a certain situation. You may be looking to ramp up your current in house recruiting team, or you've engaged in retained search previously. And I do think there is so much opportunity for us to partner with organizations as they grow. So I think that, again, our team is experienced, and we're able to really relate to the client in terms of where they're at in their hiring journey and provide the best solution. And so again, I think that when you're used to doing hiring or partnering with an outside firm the same way, when you hear about ISG's solution, it's one of those moments where you're going, “Oh, okay, this is different. This is a little bit more agile and a little bit more flexible in terms of what we may be looking for.” Our solution is a month to month subscription model, so we have clients that will engage with us for a hiring sprint for 30 to 60 days, and they may pause the solution, and then they may turn us back on two quarters from now, right when they're going through another hiring sprint. So it's a lot more flexible as it relates to organizations as they're going through their hiring cycles. And so my team, again, it's a mix of RevOps and sales enablement, and then my business development reps. And so again, it's the relationship building, and really the consultative approach as they're meeting with their clients. Ioanna Onasi 6:14 And were you always with that model, the subscription, or is this something? Cristina De La Cruz 6:20 So I had primarily, for 19 years, been on the contingent side. So I came over to ISG really because I saw the potential of growth with this model. And I think that, again, it's going to be more prevalent as you start to see organizations grow, because they do need more flexibility. They do need to be able to scale this function up from one recruiter to 10, right? And maybe it's for one month, maybe it's for six months. We have some clients that have been on with us for over a year and a half now. So again, it creates just a flexible model as they're going through hiring sprints in different cycles and seasons in their growth. Ioanna Onasi 7:00 I think it's very smart. It's much easier to retain the client, basically. Yeah. It gives me like e commerce, like I'm thinking, you know, you subscribe to a company that sends you meals or clothes or whatever every month, and then you say, “You know what, I want to pause for a month. I'm not ready.” But it doesn't mean I'm not a loyal customer. So I like that. It's a modern, fresh approach to it. And it sounds like you have a very consultative approach to sales. Tell me more about the sales operations then. Like you have a senior team. How do you spread your time? Like do you do your pipeline reviews? Do you do one on ones? What does that look like? Cristina De La Cruz 7:40 So we're a fully remote organization. So I think that when you go from growing up in a branch model to running a fully remote organization and business model, you have to find ways to, number one, make sure that you're touching everyone on your team, but also focusing on growth and clients. And so we start the beginning of every week with a sales pipeline review. So we go through that meeting, and then we do have a leadership touchpoint midweek. And no matter how big my org gets, I do think it's important, and I've been very religious and diligent about having even if it's a 15 minute one on one with every direct report on my team. And that's really digging into the health of the pipeline. What are some of the challenges going on with the team? What are we hearing out in the market? How can we get ahead of that? Do we need to change our messaging or the approach? And so I do try to make sure that I have oversight and insight into what's going on on the sales side and the recruiting and the account management side. Because, as leaders, we need to be able to insert ourselves and also help bring up future leaders by modeling what does that behavior look like. How do we approach this problem and create a solution? I also think that the communication and the comms within the organization when you're fully remote are so important. So we're utilizing the chat every day. What's working? What is, you know, did you get an objection? How should we handle that? And it shouldn't always be me and the CEO chiming in. The team is also coming in, and that's where you start to see people taking initiative and the future leaders. But everyone can learn from each other, whether it's on the recruiting side, the account management side, RevOps, or the business development side. I really try to make it a point to let's over communicate. It's all about the sharing, because again, there are shared learnings there, and just making sure that we're reaching across the fence. And again, in a branch, you could walk down to another line of business, or you could hear someone else that was on the phone, and that's how you did the on the spot coaching, and you just kind of absorbed some of that knowledge. So you have to be very intentional in a fully remote organization to make sure that all of these learnings are being shared across the org. Ioanna Onasi 10:03 100%. I think working remotely takes over communication, like you're saying, using that daily. So are you spending time now with the enablement team, like going over calls? How do you know what's happening really in the field, in those planned interactions? Cristina De La Cruz 10:22 Yeah. And I've, you know, coming in here, really helping to build out not only the go to market function, but all parts of it. So really building out the RevOps side, the marketing side, and the business development side. And so on the RevOps and sales enablement side, I've always been very focused on making sure our business development team is tied to revenue generating functions. And so we're really trying to get to a point where everything that we're doing has automation, and they're not getting bogged down from an administrative perspective. And again, I think that helps you to focus on the most important thing, and that is the client relationship, the human interaction, attending certain events or conferences or in person meetings, and having your virtual meetings as well. So creating a RevOps engine that is enabling the sales team to scale and to be more effective on a day to day basis. So again, creating some of that automation and ease of use. I think that's the biggest thing with any tech stack or tech tools that we're looking at. It's how do we help streamline the day to day business development function so that you can have more human interaction and time with your clients. Ioanna Onasi 11:45 And can you talk to us about how the team prepares for this interaction, like when they're about to show up on a call? What is their meeting prep like? Cristina De La Cruz 11:57 Yeah, so I think there are some great tools out there that help with meeting prep, but I'm still doing, and this is how I retain some of that connection, the legwork, right? Like I'm looking at the individual's LinkedIn, I'm looking at their posts, I'm looking at their journey. So I still do the prep work and the legwork because it helps me stay engaged with the individual that I'm speaking to. But that's part of it. So I think it's, again, the CRM tools that you're using in an organization, it's helping to create that prep. But everyone has their own style, and I think for me, again, there are ways to help speed that up and summarize the meetings and who you're meeting with and talking points. But again, I think there are parts that people still want to do themselves, because it helps create more of that human connection. Ioanna Onasi 12:51 Yeah, 100%. I mean, that's what it's all about. Now you've been in sales for a while, so I'm curious, what has been the best sales advice that you've gotten, and then a piece of advice you've given? Cristina De La Cruz 13:03 That's a good one. You know, I think as leaders, you're sometimes thrown into situations and, related to parenting, there's sometimes not a rule book or a guide. There are situations that come up that you may never have interacted with or dealt with previously. And I think it's just, again, always stay true to yourself, and always show up for the job that you have. I think sometimes people get promoted and they have a little bit of that, “Can I do this? Do I actually know how to show up for the job?” And it's like, you do. Having that faith and that confidence that you've been doing this, and you have years of knowledge, and people look up to you, and they value the things that you're saying and the way that you lead. So show up for the job that you signed up for, right? And do it without hesitation and have that level of confidence. And I think again, if you stay true to your north star of who you are and your core values, you're going to show up every single day as a leader and as a salesperson. Sales is all about building relationships. And I think again, if you are genuine in the relationships you're building, you're going to show up that way every single day. Ioanna Onasi 14:24 How do you learn throughout your career? How have you learned to adjust your communication style based on who you talk to? Cristina De La Cruz 14:33 Who you're talking to, the client? Yeah. I think, kind of going back to your other question, it's modeling the individual that you're talking to, right, and finding common ground. And I remember at a very young age, I was managing a multi generational task force, and again, I think it's just being a good listener. You have to listen, and you have to make sure that you're showing up with empathy and just having clear discussions about expectations around performance and expectations around how this person is contributing as an individual to the overall organization's growth and goals. And so again, I think it's just finding those human touch points with people. I always just try to find common ground, and sometimes that's through laughter and smiling and finding something to talk about that's a little bit more human and not so business oriented, but just finding that commonality. Ioanna Onasi 15:38 So I love what you said earlier about you also spending time to manually go through someone's LinkedIn and understand basically who you're speaking to. And I haven't told you this before, but talking to many people, so my company does AI coaching, right? And we help people understand who they're meeting. Because to me, the issue with sales, having been in sales enablement, is people know what they're selling, right? They know how to handle the pricing objection, they know the competitive landscape, they know the script, but they don't know the buyer unless they do spend that time to really dig in. And the issue is sellers don't have any time between calls, like you're back to back, especially if you are measured by volume. You're not incentivized to know that. So it's funny that, as sales leaders, everybody will say, “Yeah, of course, it's the customer, it's the connection.” But then the way the system is, we don't empower reps to have the time to do the proper work. And technology comes handy in this case. Like you mentioned earlier, empathy is so important, but we can't also expect every single person we hire is super empathetic. It's a skill, you can develop it. So what are some of the skills that you're looking for outside of empathy when you're hiring? What are the things that you're like, “Okay, that makes a good potential seller?” Cristina De La Cruz 17:00 I think their ability for communication, their emotional intelligence, and in sales it's all about coachability, right? I think even at the highest levels, my CEO and I are asking each other for feedback, right? And so it's that back and forth, because I think that every salesperson, their goal is to get better at their craft, right? And how do I connect with people in more situations? And how do I stand out compared to some of my competitors? And when you're in the professional services industry, and our product is, number one, the quality of candidates that we're providing to our clients, it's also our key differentiator, the level of service that we're providing. And so when I am meeting with future business development folks on my team, I'm always thinking about, as a client, could I build a relationship with this person? Can I trust them? And that trust obviously leads to what I buy from them. And again, I think the goal is, I had a client recently tell me that I had built a customer for life. And it really resonated with me because he said, “You make time, you make time, and you show up.” And I think that again, even in situations where there are a lot of things you can't control, it's how you react, right, and what you're doing after there might be an issue at hand. What did you do in that moment to, number one, address the situation, but create a solution and an action plan? And I think that again, you're trying to build a customer for life with your external customers. But I've also been very big on building internal relationships. So when I'm hiring future reps, I'm always thinking about, are they collaborative? Are they going to collaborate with the recruiting team? Are they going to collaborate with external customers? And are they going to collaborate with the sales team and be someone that is reliable and communicative in terms of what's working, what's not working, and sharing that knowledge? So those are some of the key attributes that I look for, the communication, emotional intelligence, and the coachability. Ioanna Onasi 19:25 At the end of the day, you know, I truly believe sellers are consensus architects. That's exactly what you're saying. Like you're talking to 10 sometimes stakeholders. How do you align? How do you speak their language to get them all to say, yes, we commit to the next step? Because at the end of the day, the issue with forecasting is that you think you've communicated. You think you heard something, you put it in the pipeline, then it ends up becoming something for next quarter. So it's very important. I totally agree, all of the characteristics, I mean, this is, to me, what makes or breaks the deal. It's all the soft skills that really yield to the sale. Now, how do you think you can develop some of these skills? Like at work, looking back, you've hired someone more junior and you helped them go up the ladder. What were the things that helped? Was it the one on ones, were the role plays, being matched with another seller? What do you think maximizes their growth? Cristina De La Cruz 20:31 I think about the early days in my staffing career, and again, until you kind of are hiring for a certain leadership role or you're looking for someone that has the tenured experience in the industry or a network, a lot of the first hires are people that are in their first job out of college sometimes. And I remember when I first started, I didn't even know what recruiting was. I still didn't understand the big picture. So you're thrown into these situations. And so I think the way that you're able to bring people up and help develop some of these skills, you have to constantly. Back then it was the splitter, right? Like you had your headset on and you had them listening to your calls. And so there are different ways to do that with AI and sales enablement now, but it's really that splitter mentality and sitting side by side. I always had newer reps shadow some of my top performing reps, going out on client meetings with them. Everything that we were doing was collaborative and in a team environment. So we were onboarding together and having these team meetings and doing role plays, and you have to be able to hear how different people approach the sale and the situation and the pitch. And so again, it's just that development and leadership skill development over time. But I truly believe in leading by example and showing up in the trenches, right? I've always said I would never ask anyone on my team to do something that I wouldn't do myself. So when there were times where we didn't have a lot of starts on the board, or it was a slower month, I was picking up the phone and constantly creating noise within the branch. And I think that that activity breeds and yields additional activity on the team. So again, I think some of those attributes come over time, and it's really helping individuals see how those attributes and how they showed up in certain situations developed and yielded the sale or the relationship. So again, I think it's just highlighting those situations for others to see. Oh, I could approach it this way instead, or I should have creatively thought about this solution. So again, I think some of the attributes are developed and refined over time. But I think sometimes you just have a gut feeling about someone too, right? You just know the type of person they are over the course of the interview process. Ioanna Onasi 23:00 Yeah. Okay. And last question for you, as a female leader in sales, which we know is very much male dominated, but is changing over time, how do you think you lead differently than other male counterparts? Cristina De La Cruz 23:23 Yeah, you know, it's funny. I'll share this quick story too. I went to a community networking event of technology sales leaders, and I was one of two women at this event. And I came home and I said to my son, who's 12, I said, the event was great. It was really great dialogue, great conversations, but I was one of two women at the event. And he said, “That's great.” And I said, “It's not great.” And he said, “No, it's great, mommy, that you were there representing women.” And I said I agree, and thank you, but also we have to do better, and there needs to be more female representation from a leadership perspective, especially in the tech side. So I think how I show up differently, it's just different life experiences. But I think that at the end of the day, there are still the same expectations for men and women. But I think my ability to show up and have the different life experiences, as a mother, as a wife, as a sister, as a daughter, that's just a different way that I show up, and that's my own unique way of showing up. And I was fortunate enough to grow up under some very strong female leaders that showed me that, again, you don't have to pick and choose your path, and you can show up authentically as your whole self every single day as a female leader. Ioanna Onasi 25:00 Beautiful. Yeah, to leave it on a positive note, I think now more than ever, where we are in the workplace, and what you're saying about also a manager leading by example, I think the data shows that the number one reason why someone would leave is their relationship with a manager. And the expectations, especially like Gen Z have and future generations will have in the workplace, are much higher than before. It's all about showing up with care and vulnerability, and these instincts that women have by default, because it's their nature, are the exact skills of the future leader. So I think it's the first time ever we see that women will naturally be rising because the environment needs that. And it's very exciting times, but it's awesome to see that you, as a mom, are setting that example also to your son, and he's picking up even at 12. Like it's amazing to see. So he'll definitely, I think, be the one that wants to work for a woman. Cristina De La Cruz 26:00 Yeah, a hundred percent. I hope so. And no, I'm fully confident in that. And I'm here for it. I think that again, it's exciting to see, and in all the female executive communities that I'm a part of, it's amazing, and the level of support, and the way that we show up for each other and help one another with relationships and introductions and advice. And so again, it's been extremely supportive and a dynamic part of my life. So again, I think as female leaders we have to also continue to show up for others to show that this is a path, and we need more women sales executive leaders. And so again, it's just charting that path for them, and showing up, and it matters. Ioanna Onasi 26:48 Yeah, yeah. And a great leader never gets intimidated by another great leader. And that's the mentality we should have, that by lifting someone up doesn't take away from your own success or path. And yeah, it's really the only way to go, passing it on. Cristina De La Cruz 27:07 Yeah, locking arms and exactly, showing and paving the way for future leaders. Ioanna Onasi 27:15 That's wonderful. Cristina, thank you so much for joining us today and for sharing all your thoughts. Cristina De La Cruz 27:18 No, this was wonderful. So thank you again for having me. Ioanna Onasi 27:23 Thank you. Outro 27:24 Thank you very much for listening to Across the Funnel. If you got one useful GTM idea out of this show today, please share this with a teammate and hit follow. Explore Hyperengage at hyperengage.io and Dextego at dextego.com.