Ep#25: Early-Stage Startups Success with Optiply ft. Saahil Karkera (CCO, Optiply)

Adil Saleh: Hey, greetings everybody. This is Adil from hyper engage podcast we have Sahil Head of Customer Success at Optiply joined us today, thank you very much for taking the time. Saahil Karkera: You’re most welcome, Hi everyone. Adil Saleh: Loved it, saahil, I was so intrigued. On the first side when I looked at your bio on LinkedIn and, and the kind of product that you’re serving the customer success team for, but with the fact that you have already worked with two startups in the past, and you are some guy that, you know, people or businesses trust in the early stage, working hands on, on the GTM frameworks, to you know, building out the customer success operations or maybe cooperating systems and technologies and making it as an organization. So our audience would love to see your journey, why you why you do what you do, like working with, you know, early stage SaaS businesses on the customer facing operations, like post sales operation, and, you know, making sure it’s it’s the way to go from the early days. So could you tell us touch on your background? Saahil Karkera: Yeah, lovely. I think there are a lot of layers to unpeel. On that question. I think the biggest aspect, of course, being in early stage companies or startups are trying to prove that product market fit, right. And there are multiple different KPIs or milestones that this need to reach at a certain stage in their lifes time in terms of then unlocking VC funding, so on and so forth, trying to unlock those growth levers. I think founders as much as they are really strong in sales, the product aspect of it, very few of them are really conversant with CS and of course, driving that NRR from that perspective, right. So for me, and being in SaaS, starting my journey in enterprise sales in SaaS, was a very easy transition to move into customer success, and really driving that retention piece for the customers and the company. And that over the last three companies that I worked for two, has unlocked a lot of financial select levers in terms of VC funding, but also overall growth for those companies. Right. And why why early stage startups? It’s, I think, the excitement of working for a small company, you can really move fast and experiment very quickly. Not saying that scale ups don’t do that. But it’s just a different flavor of doing things in that sense, right? And the quicker you reach certain milestones, the faster you progress. So for me, that has always been the fun element of working for an early stage company. Adil Saleh: Okay, wonderful. So this is something we never asked you anybody like this in the beginning of the of the of the episode. So I noticed that you’ve worked with a European startup in the, in the past, like two startups. What is the key takeaway for you, as somebody that has worked and got your hands dirty? With them? What’s the best advice you would give to any startup at that stage, looking to collaborate with someone that can work with a GTM and product market all these years? Saahil Karkera: I think over the last eight years, what I’ve realized is European companies are traditionally whole cycle behind what’s happening in the Bay Area, right? We, we tend to take inspiration from a lot of the companies in the States. And then we try and adapt and fit and experiment with what works for us here. And we start working with both specific frameworks, right? What I’d love to see is for European companies to become those trendsetters, and that trend, eventually transitioning back into states, right. So that will be quite an interesting transition to see happen over the coming period. What I would love for a lot of early stage companies to do is to really put in place the customer success motion, pretty much from day one on right. What I’ve seen, across all the meetups, we’ve organized, a lot of companies really for the first three years focus hardcore on on the product and on sales and not necessarily on retention. And that over a period of two to three years time accumulates and then starts catching up. And then rather than really thinking about driving and growing, it’s a bit of firefighting, where you’re really focusing on retention. So if you can already have a good retention from day one on, then you can start thinking about expansion, add ons, and that’s where your NRR number really kicks up. Right. So that’s where I think a lot of founders I have to say have to switch the way they think about customer success, I noticed its big topic at the moment where CS has probably been looked at as a cost center. It is not a cost center, right. It is actually a revenue driving center and that’s the mindset shift a lot of founders need to make if they really want to thrive in a very competitive environment. Adil Saleh: Amazing, amazing you, you’ve been, like two components that you mentioned, for early stage startups. One is they need to make sure they have, they have the business that they can sleep well on, and that they can retain, not like firefighting, and you know, consistently talking about having more features and putting in more customers and getting more feedback and building more features and more customers. So that is one thing. And secondly is, you know, making sure that you have, you have your customer success team, retaining the revenue, it’s not something that you are making them responsible for, for for the dollar value for the maybe just only responsible for the dollar value and that mindset shift. So absolutely love that. So talking about to that startups that you worked in the past? What was your process? As an individual hands on? Like, of course, they had different challenges one of them have, like every other product. So what was your thought process? The beginning? Saahil Karkera: Yeah, I think it’s, it’s really got to do with understanding where the company is at at the moment. So like, establishing the baseline, really understanding where they want to go, what are the roadblocks in place that we need to kind of address and break through, and then starting to put into the the CS motion that will address those specific topics, right. So for example, for one of the companies that I worked, activation was a very big topic. So we had high numbers of customers signing but not a lot going through the onboarding funnel. So how do you activate and increase that activation rate for another one that really to do with upsells? So they had good activation rate, retention data, the logo itself, but not enough in terms of user growth, right? So really understanding where the company’s at, what are the success metrics for the product, and what metrics they need to hit to, like I mentioned, unlock the next lever of funding or growth, right. And that’s where you then really as I would say, like, as a good CS leader start crafting your strategy, say, Okay, for the first two quarters, we really focus and drive down on activation rate, the next two quarters, we work on expansion. And by doing that, I think over a period of one year, you really start hitting across all the levers of net revenue retention. Adil Saleh: That’s and you have to make sure that you’re smooth enough to make you have strong baseline that you that is scalable enough, like in terms of not only just the technology, but also the team, also the resources that that come into play to be able to, you know, basically, navigate the friction points and apply. The operations are executed. Wonderful. Saahil Karkera: Yeah, like every other team, right, or a company things to always revolve around people processes and tools slash technology. So you always have to make incremental improvements across these three pillars, and at the end of the year, you will have that compounded effect or result being realized. Adil Saleh: Absolutely, absolutely. So just to end with that part. You know, how long do you think on average do take for you to you know, have streamline and you think like, okay, I’m good to go, I need to move to my next startup. Yeah. So yeah, how long does it take normally? Saahil Karkera: I think it’s a very hard question. I would not have left my former role if the company would not have been in the hospitality tech space. And the only reason why I left it is because of the pandemic, right, it’s a lot of uncertainty going up and down. So I think for for CSM, for CS leaders, if your product is in a good market, you have an amazing team, a good leadership, great peers to work with, then I don’t think you should really set yourself like a time bound way of thinking Oh, I’ll only work for two years, and then I move on. Right? The idea is never to do that. But to get the company to maybe a stage of exit or being acquired. That’s always the vision for founders so to say. So try and get them as close as possible to that end milestone. And then in the meantime, if you find something even more exciting, then then you take it on as a challenge. Adil Saleh: Yeah, Loved it, I personally pretty am loving the way that you have built yourself as as as not just an individual that’s helping these startups but also the person that has developed as a self as an individual over different technologies and you have some diversity, let’s talk about Optiply. So how big is your team right now? Saahil Karkera: It’s a very, very small compact team. We are four people in total, three CSMs and one support person. We’re currently hiring one more CS in my team. Adil Saleh: Cool, cool. So you’re trying to grow the team? Okay. Good. So how does your customer perceive value In like a range of different industries, let’s talk about retail. Saahil Karkera: Yeah, it’s, we try and reduce overstock for our customers, right. So that’s where they perceive value, if they can have a higher turnover with lower inventory, that’s the value that we can bring for them. And how that can manifest for different customers is in a very different way. Some customers purely talk about the reviews they get from their end customers, right? So we have to shift the way we articulate that value per customer, because for some, they’re very metric driven, they only talk about their bottom line numbers, they don’t care about end customer reviews. But for some, that’s more important, and that’s what the CSM is they talk about, Hey, how is your customer review score improving versus not so on and so forth. So I think we should never go with that same yardstick per customer, but that pitch has to change by customer, right? Because they have purchased the product for a very different reason. And that’s what you need to touch upon. Adil Saleh: It is absolutely possible within the same niche two different customers perceived value in two different ways. Cool, so talking about your customer success team and operations, like we spoke to a lot of SAS businesses, some early said some very scalable model. So but a lot of people are thinking about having just like marketing team sales team support teams, Customer Success teams need to incorporate dedicated technology like dedicated customer success platforms, what do you think about it? Saahil Karkera: I would completely agree with that line of thought. And I think we are in this age where all of a sudden there are a lot of new tooling and technology available for the CSM teams. And that’s you know, we are getting the challenge, right? You don’t want to have your CSMs managing 15 tools, you want to have few ideally that really integrate well with each other. Because again, companies face this challenge saying what is my single source of truth? I don’t think companies will ever have one single source of truth. I think more the challenge is how do you have that same source of truth or way of looking at the truth across all different systems that different stakeholders use right? So if it’s the same data, is it consistent in your Salesforce, in HubSpot, in Gainsight, it has to be consistent. So if a sales guy goes to whatever system, same you if you go totango, Gainsight whatever, it’s the same view. That’s, I think, a challenge a lot of companies need to address. Adil Saleh: And I also have an opinion, since I’m learning from you learned from our guests. And, you know, I have an opinion that there are four different teams that say four or five ways different teams, they have different roles, they have different goals. So why not we while incorporating technology where, you know, inducing technology into our business, as startups or as any size. Why not we just attach our our headquarters like let’s say sales team as an ad quarter success team has an anti quarter support team as an ad quarter product team as an ad quarter, you know, inside their headquarters, so we giving them their own things on in the most seamless way, in the most swift way onto their dashboards in their app to their headquarters. Just like Salesforce is a source of truth. For live sales teams. HubSpot is its source of truth for a lot of marketing teams. So we were also discovering this. I would say this practice that how often even on the early stage, you are monitoring the customers, you are communicating with customers, you are evolving with their goals as an early bird, why not you work on their journeys, why not? You work on their satisfaction relationship, you know, all these customer success terms. So what do you think about it like now thinking on the lens on the lens of early stage startup, do you think one should think of incorporating a customer success tool? Saahil Karkera: Yeah, I think it’s a very, very good question. I think there are a few challenges that founders in general have there. And for that matter, any CS leader in those early stage startups, right. Traditionally, funding is a big challenge and bottleneck in the sense that some of them are bootstrapped, like we are, for example, at optiply. Some of them are in the process of fundraising. And based on that, it’s very difficult to really invest that money into a tool. Because again, like I said, the traditional thought of school as our school of thought has been CS is a cost center and not an investment center right in that sense. So I think founders need to think about cost of customer retention the same way they think about cost of Customer Acquisition and make budget available for CS teams to spend as they see fit. So that’s the first piece. Second. Even if you had this budget, my best approach or way of looking at it is trying to bootstrap your CS operations with whatever tools you currently have. Right. I have run CS of Pipedrive. I have run CS of HubSpot till a point in time where it is time for us to make that shift in terms of our CS maturity model. And that’s when you really start looking at okay, what sort of tools do we need? What is the end goal with these tools, and then you start incorporating more tools into your tech stack, right? You don’t want to go and buy all of these amazing pieces of software, and then not really have your strategy in place first. You don’t want to have 10 tools, but not know what you really want to get out from them. Right? So when you start bootstrapping, doing all of these things, that’s when you realize, okay, this is my customer journey, this how it looks like, these are all the gaps and holes, how should I fill it? What’s the best way to fill it? What tool enables me to do that in the best way possible? And then you start creating your own tech tool stack, basically. So that would be my approach. Yeah. Adil Saleh: It’s also about Yes, just like mentioned, it’s also about the cost optimization, as well as a self funded business. So you tell us right now, you’re leading a small customer success team there, what kind of technologies you have geared towards making sure your success goals are met? Saahil Karkera: Yeah, so like I mentioned, we’ve been running CS on HubSpot. It’s been doing a really good job. But like I mentioned, we are now taking that evolutionary next step, we really want to double down on customer engagement, but also based on product usage data, financial data. So for us, it was very important to start looking at a customer success platform. We are definitely not at the scale to go take on a totango or a gainsight. Thats completely off scale for us. So we’ve instead recently contracted with a company called Vitally, Yes, yeah. And we had intercom already in our tech stack. But we are now taking a few additional features to really, like I mentioned, drive that direct engagement with customers. And for our BI solution, we are currently redoing our data warehouse that enables us to really do this proactive engagement with customers, and start drilling a lot more deeper analytics on our own usage data. And we’re going to probably use Google Data Studio for it. Adil Saleh: Interesting, very interesting, So we became a lot of CS leaders saying that we are going to incorporate catalyst, Vitally, Gainsight, Totango, churn zero all of these tools for these reasons. But yeah, I don’t think anybody came up and said, we’re using HubSpot for our own customer success team for now. So I’m so interested in how you have incorporated HubSpot for your success team. And what are the still friction points that you need a tool such as Vitally that can double down on all of these data points, especially I know where you are using Vitally because used Vitally too, and they’re they’ve done an incredible job, by the way. Yeah, they have done an incredible job. And on part of that, I know that when it comes to, like customer success journey,when we really talk about adoption, that’s when the tools like Vitally came up like product usage so you need to drive adoption as much as possible to drive retention. You know, adoption is the most critical stage. Saahil Karkera: Yeah. Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. And I think like I said, up until a few months ago, the very basics that we needed, right like understanding our key product metrics, understanding certain trip metrics within the product. We have a fabulous engineering team. So they would build these scripts that would run overnight and push data from our product database directly to HubSpot. So we could have reports, we could have certain stats that would look at and show where customers are doing well or not. But you know, the traditional way of the traffic light system like your red customers, green customers, that’s where HubSpot starts to become a bit clunky. You can’t really create alert notifications based on usage change, change of the usage data. And that’s when you really start to feel the pinch where if you start with 50 customers in HubSpot, you’ll find you can manage this you can go into every single account and check but when you start reaching 100 150 200 and customers then it really starts to become a pain point. Right. So in my former company when we used to run this also within HubSpot. I think the CSM were handling around 50 customers And in the former company, I implemented another tool called planhat, I’m not sure if that’s across your radar. But by the time I left the organization, its CSM was quite easily able to manage around 400 customers, right. So that’s the gain or the upside that you can have by implementing such a platform. And my approach always is, if I’m getting budgets to hire a person, I would actually use that budget to invest in a tool, or tooling, because that will exponentially scale, right. So get it as early as possible. With fewer number of customers fewer number of users, you can really start setting it up in the right way, fine tuning it. So tomorrow, when we need to hire 10 CSMs. It’s already a robust system, robust processes, and then you can really scale fast. Adil Saleh: incredible, incredible. And also, this element that you briefly mentioned, is having tools like dedicated tools that streamlines the entire customer success operations. And I would say make it more digital, like data driven, and all and everything lands at the right time. And in the most optimized way, that saves time. So even if you talk about 10 20% of your CSM, that saves time, using a third party tool you can have, you can have 10% More work, you can have 10 20% More books that you can assign or accounts that you’re going to sign. So you’re also cutting off on resources just by optimizing and streamlining your customer success operations. And that is also one element that cuts the cost. You know, previously, we’ve heard like businesses, you know, serving small to mid market. And they have like 100 accounts, one customer success manager managing 100 accounts. So that’s why you need a lot of ID. So we’ll talk about your product later on. So we get to know, okay, what kind of segments you’re serving the most, you know, what does your customer journeys look like? What kind of standardized operations you you’re thinking of building by incorporating Vitally to that is something you wanted to say something I’m sorry? No, no Okay, so Planhat one thing I really loved about it, what, what, what I’ve seen a few months back is they are working on on customer success knowledge base, and all these kinds of things they are working on very heavily. So that is also super important to get their teams 100% integrated getting the CS teams in different ranges. When you think about like, thinking of next three years, you have like 30,000 customers, and you have like three different segments for that you have three different teams. So it’s on a scalability, these, these platforms definitely helped. And really appreciate that as a self funded business you’re thinking to incorporate, and you are already thinking of incorporating Vitally, wonderful, love them. So now talking about the technology a bit of a like, of course you have you’re serving different segments. So what kind of standardized operations you have, like in terms of indicating risks and health, you have clarity, when you will integrate by introducing tools like Saahil Karkera: Yeah, very good question. So my current role I’ve been with the company for only about half a year, right? So I’m also learning a lot about the product and the industry. So we serve the very, very small, independent web shop owner who runs a web shop as a side business sort of, all the way to a small medium sized business that has maybe like 10, 15 20 million annual turnover, right. So that’s the scale that we serve. Our product is not very complex, I have to say. But the challenge there in itself is the people using the product are not very tech savvy, right? This could be like a 50 year old guy running a web shop. And for them certain concepts become very interesting to understand and grasp with the product, but a 20 year old purchaser can really grasp those concepts really well. So the motion we had earlier, to me joining was we serve every single customer the same way, obviously not very scalable. Over the last few weeks and months, we are slowly starting to segment our customers based on an ICP strategy in that sense. Our product is 100% fit for certain industries. What does that mean? It’s 100% fit for fast moving products, right where they have a very short replenishment cycle. A very good example could be a supplement company, right? Bodybuilding, if you can think about it, people every month they keep buying supplements. That’s when our product works really well. So the first step was defining who our ICP customers are, what do they look like how they use the product? Does that also tally with churn data. And based on all of that, Okay, these are ICPs. This is how we start engaging with them. And that now is slowly starting to become our go to motion strategy for customer success, where we say, ICP customer, top paying customer, they get a completely different customer journey, versus a customer who’s not an ICP, is a really small, independent business owner. So they get a completely different experience with our company and the product, right. So now is where we are slowly starting to take that next step as evolving. I think in the coming year, where we will really change our company and product strategy is by starting to offer a freemium model. And that’s indeed where a product like Vitally will become very handy, for us to really boost that conversion ratio from free trial to a paid customer. Right? And then driving upsell within that product. Yeah, you had a question? Adil Saleh: Yeah. So you are, in my impression, you’re trying to build a self serve model? On the premium side? Is that right? Okay. So, because Vitally suits more towards like PLG models. Saahil Karkera: Yeah, that’s exactly the idea. Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly the idea. So like, when I joined, we had a very long conversation with the founder saying, Hey, we really want to go plg. But there are certain elements that are bottlenecks in the way to become plg. Right? We have a pretty big development team. But then they’re really focused on the core piece of the product itself, and not necessarily driving upsell in that traditional plg sense. And that’s when he said, Okay, how can CS support that strategy? It’s by exactly doing these things, right. So using intercom vitally start creating elements of plg and getting customers to upsell and take add ons themselves. So that’s exactly like you mentioned, what we are supporting the business as a strategy. Okay, cool. Adil Saleh: So first thing you’re trying to implement with integrating platform like Vitally is a freemium model is right. Saahil Karkera: And that will be something we are really going to start doing next year. But that is, again, dependent on so many things, right? Like how the industry in general is shifting in E commerce. But that’s that’s the goal, let’s say. Adil Saleh: So are you finished with the GTM frameworks like it’s, it’s not going to like you’re not going to pivot with that. And also, the pricing models, that also includes that Saahil Karkera: pricing, to be honest, is, it should never be like a one time thing, right? It’s a constant improvement. So having said that, it’s never like a dumb thing. It’s constant evolution. Since I’ve joined, we’ve already had one iteration on the pricing, we are working on the second one. And we will keep doing it till we really find that sweet spot, right? It’s all about experimentation. I think this guy from where does this website profit? Well, I think he says it really well, right? You have to keep experimenting with your pricing strategy. So the time being our GTM. And customer success is fairly set for like I mentioned, the ICP strategy. So that is something we’ll continue pushing for the coming two quarters, and we’ll see how it goes from there. Adil Saleh: Wonderful, wonderful. I’m looking at I’m trying to search your website. So why was asking that because once you implement the freemium model, you’ll have to have pricing tier for people that are previously using as free and this plan of source that supports their intent, their buying intent, let’s say they’ve been using it for $0, before your system indicates, okay, they are potential user, they’re adopting to the platform, however, they’re not paying. So we need to convert them on a on a on $1 value. That’s, that attracts them. And that’s easy to convert. So that’s wonderful. I’m sure you already, you know, you guys are already on it. Wonderful. So now when it comes to team, I think the values and DNAs and culture that remains the same. So that’s the part of you know, that’s something embedded in the religion and in the leadership. So what kind of DNA that you guys preach? Or values do you guys have for your current team? Saahil Karkera: Yeah, lovely question. I think a few things. First of all, in the last eight years, I have fortunately or unfortunately, never hired a person with a CS background. So all my hires has always been people from outside the CS space So having said that, I think for me what else really stood out. throughout these years, the top performers are always the ones who have a growth mindset, right? I don’t know if you’ve read the book or not, I highly recommend reading that book for everyone in general. But CSMs who display those traits are really the ones who over achieve month on month, quarter on quarter they meet their goals. So I always try to hire people with the right mindset first, because I think everything else is teachable. If you don’t have the right mindset, then boy, it’s a tough challenge to kind of really teach the right mindset. Adil Saleh: Trust me. So do we talk about this every freaking day with my partner. So we have a SaaS business, we have a service business, we do a podcast as well, we talk to people. And we have a very big team too. So once we see people not showing the appetite, willingness, and they’re not trying to like hustle mind, they’re not growing themselves, they’re not willing to grow. And this is what we talked about the growth mindset. Absolutely. Yeah. Saahil Karkera: Yeah. And for me, personally, like one of my core values is also personal growth and development, right. So that’s something I always try and incorporate and inculcate within the team members. And again, the ones who really, like you said, show that fire in the belly, if I can put it that way. Those are the ones that I really love to work with, and try and distill everything that I have learned into them. Because I always, like genuinely, genuinely believe company success cannot come before employee success, right? So if I want my CSM to be successful in the agile, me as a leader, my job is to really help make them successful in their job and whatever it takes per CSM, that then my job to kind of help them get there, right. So maybe one CSM is really strong with numbers, but very weak with prioritization skills. So that’s how I would approach helping them if with another CSM its other way around. And that’s how I would help them. And I think the core philosophy behind CS in general is always take a human first approach, right? If you think about it, most companies these days are using between 5, 10 15 different providers, service providers, and they all want something from you, right? Hey, do this, Hey, do that, hey, they say that. What I really want is every time my CSM sends an email to the customer, they should be like, Oh, yes, I really want to open this email and read this, right? Like, hey, what’s going on? I want that excitement coming from the customer. And so we always try and take the human first approach, quite literally speaking. A very good example of this is here in the Netherlands, we have a local, like cultural festival. And one of the things you do in this is you write a poem for your friend or your family or loved members, right? I’m familiar with it. Yes. Yeah. So a few months ago, one of our customers on chat support reached out, it was a long conversation and at the end of it, the support agent said, Is there anything else I can help you with? And the customer said, You know what, I’ve been so busy that I totally forgot write this poem for my colleague would be awesome if you can actually write a poem for me. Right? So the support agent said lovely was he snooze the conversation went back to the team within five minutes we came up with the poem we send the poem to him and he was like oh my god, I did not expect this you guys are amazing Alright, so also trying to add that human layer and not just like this business business Adil Saleh: your your customers or people your partners or people your key members of people so it’s all about sometimes it’s basically solves the highest risks and highest challenges as well once you understand once you try to connect with people on a personal level no matter what that person on the other side is like the Titans forgetting the titles and everything just understanding and connecting them with our personnel. I love the way your your team approached that and you know, you’re crossing bridges for for your customers absolutely loved it. Great. So now are you guys have you guys have any kind of training center or any kind of training and management for your team like in any shape or form like we are we as a team, I tell you, we are initiating growth club that will, you know, that will have books, documentaries, TV series, you know, different podcasts that we share, and people we will share just like yourself, like share sale with our team, their story and all and you share the knowledge now. So do you have any kind of these kinds of things initiatives that you take? Yeah, Saahil Karkera: yeah, very good question. And I think as as companies grow and scale this becomes, I think, almost crucial, right to have like a learning learning path, if you can put it that way. We don’t have anything formalized or very structured. So we are going to be hiring a head of people very shortly. And I think this would become a part of their responsibility to really have something in place. What we do instead, within my team at this point in time is we have like a monthly reflection meeting at the end of each month, we gather on the table, every last Friday of the month, have a few beers. And then we reflect what are the biggest four cups that we did? What did we learn from them? What were the toughest objections we got from customers? What can we learn? How did we address them? And then we go and document them back. Right? So that’s sort of how we do it, but not very, like structurized in that sense. And I do know that a lot of SaaS companies now try to address this pain point. So maybe at some point in time, we actually end up taking a subscription on on these platforms. Adil Saleh: Yeah, but don’t think that I’m asking for that reason. No, no. So say, Yeah, this is absolutely utterly important. Like you as a leader, you think you’re not thinking that there is no head of people’s, it’s their response, it’s your team, your people need to take care of them. Their mistake is yours, their success and failures is yours. So you’re getting back to them, sitting them, sitting with them on table, looking back, just unplugging them for any work that’s on the cards on the table, just trying to navigate where we go wrong, how we can improve it, what are the mistakes, let’s admit, let’s be self aware, and you know, move forward and in the best in the best way possible. I absolutely loved it. Sale. It was like, I’ve spoken to more than roughly around 20,000 businesses ever since I was 13 years old. And my job is you know, more towards client relationship, customer engagement sales all these 13 years. And I love to you know, capture stories just the way you came up to dates, something really, really unique. So I’m sure you look up to what our marketing team comes up with how we ended up story fIying and and distributing across our audiences that we’ll have definitely have something great to learn from your story. So I really appreciate you took the time, and you came up and you helped me learn something today. Saahil Karkera: However, thank you so much. I think it was also very refreshing for myself to hear myself speak and articulate those concepts. And apologies for constantly shuffling around the meeting agenda. Having a three month old baby, it’s always a bit of a challenge to have these things, you know, coming up out of the blue, but thanks so much for being accommodating. Adil Saleh: Thank you very much. We finally found you and we definitely look forward to it and we’ll definitely touch back on different other things that we need your help with our team would need our audience would need help with. Don’t forget you have a very analytical knowledge that you don’t have to lose and that’s so important for our people. Saahil Karkera: Awesome Adil, Thank you so much love speaking with you and always happy to contribute to your community. Adil Saleh: Sure, have a great day rest, Bye Saahil Karkera: bye bye