Ep#30: Simplifying Data Encryption with Garblecloud ft. Alex Ames (Customer Success Manager)

Alex Ames: I had all these skills and I had all these experiences, and I wanted to find something that kind of culminated all of them. And I found customer success to be the perfect area where encompasses everything. Taylor Kenerson: Welcome to the hyper engage podcast, we are so happy to have you along our journey. Here, we uncover bits of knowledge from some of the greatest minds in tech, we unearth the hows, whys and whats that drive the tech of today. Welcome to the movement. Adil Saleh: Hey, greetings, everybody. This is Adil from hyperengage podcast and we have Alex from Garblecloud, he’s serving as a customer success manager there. Thank you, Alex, for joining on this day, and taking the time out Alex Ames: Thank you very much. Its so exciting to be here, happy to be here. Adil Saleh: Wonderful, cool stuff. So looking at garblecloud and all your prior experience, it becomes pretty obvious to know how you know somebody from sales or marketing somebody that from not completely different sizes, customer facing world. But when it comes to customer success that has more to do with, you know, customer goals and relationship, and someone from that background coming into this space, could you tell us a little bit of your journey? What motivated you? What was the biggest reason? You started thinking, Okay, why not, you know, this customer success? Domain? And why not? I should you know, what do you what did you make you convinced? What made you convinced to, you know, see yourself as a customer success Individual? Unknown Speaker: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I have a marketing background, traditionally, I’ve been marketing for the last five years within gaming, and professionally, sports and stuff like that. So that was kind of something that I guess the first sort of skill that I kind of attached myself with. From there, I got to learn, you know, operations side of things, how that worked, sale side of things, and you know, it was there was customer success, traditionally spreekt and sprinkled in there a little bit. But I got to do so many different roles. And I found that like, I enjoyed being a generalist, in a sense. I like doing a lot of different things I like I like my days not not to be structured, the same sort of thing. That’s why sales didn’t really work out for me as much as I would like you to to have done because it’s very regimented of how you want to be. So I had all these skills, and I had all these experiences. And I wanted to find something that kind of culminated all of them. And I found customer success to be the perfect area where it encompasses everything. So at least touch on everything, depending on the situation, especially here, at Garblecloud, I get to do a lot of different things, and wear a lot of different hats and be a part of a lot of different initiatives, which is really cool for me. And that’s kind of where I found it, because it’s something that was a blend of all the skills that I liked and all skills that I learned and it was something that’s perfect for me. Adil Saleh: Oh, that’s interesting. We’ll talk more about garblecloud as well. So thinking of you joining the global plan, what was the technical grounds? What was your key interest? Alex Ames: I wanted, I took two main criteria, I wanted a smaller environment. So whether it be a startup or a smaller company, I wanted something that felt, you know, like nimble environment where things can move quickly. And it doesn’t have to get caught up in corporate structure sometimes I’ve had that happen previously. I wanted something like super, super fast paced. So that was the next thing where it was I wanted something that you know, the day to day was wholly different. It was a lot of action that we had to get done. And then the really the common goal. And like the motivation and the people I work for I like working for individuals that you know, they’re very passionate about what they do. And they’re very driven and stuff. And I got that here. Through interviewing, it was a, it was a dream come true. For me. It’s like Oh, my God, everyone’s here is exactly like what I’m looking for. And it was the perfect, perfect storm for me to come and join. Adil Saleh: Oh, that’s, that’s great. So a team of around 18 people and serving on the data security side like for the all the cloud data. So how do you think like you’re getting in what was the story of this problem that you’re solving? Like how did it come into existence in the beginning? Alex Ames: Garblecloud was kind of a perfect storm for me because of, it relatively recently in the Garblecloud’s lifespan were the marketing team, sales team, and operations kind of sorted out and finalized. But there was no stepping stone from closing of sale to what happens next. Onboarding and stuff like that had just been done by the founders and as quick as they could and there was no cadence to checking up, check up on things, there was no structure and how you wanted to go about doing that stuff. So that was a really like a cool, cool opportunity for me because it was a blank canvas to say okay, well We have to do something unique. And we have to win, we have to start from scratch. And it was also a challenge, because it’s not a traditional customer success model, I want to say. And I can go into that more detail when we start getting into how that goes with the product and stuff. But I think you’ll realize right away that it’s not, it’s not like the traditional sense where it’s okay, I have a product that sells to a certain team, and I only have to deal with a certain amount of individuals, like a team of 10,15 20, whatever, and I have a single contact. Our product is end user based. So you know, if Amazon has 150,000 Sorry, employees, then I have to deal with that many people. It’s not, oh, I have to I’m dealing with the sales team, or the CIO, the CIO or the CSO, whatever that is, you know, I’m not a couple of individuals with everyone. So that’s a really unique challenge. And it was something that was like, okay, the tech’s super cool. It’s very cutting edge. There’s a blank canvas here, I have a lot of skill sets for this. It seems like a perfect storm for me. And I got really excited about it. And here I am. Adil Saleh: Yeah, definitely. So talking about post sales operations in the beginning. Of course, when you don’t have customer success, you still have to do some sort in any shape or form. You have to serve the customer need to make sure that goals are met. And you know, you’re consistently in communication and building relationships. So you said your founders initially, in the beginning, they’ve been doing it. And how many customers do you have at this point? Alex Ames: Um, the exact number of that? I don’t know, because so that we kind of keep in the dark. It’s anywhere between it’s in the it’s in the sub, it’s a low, low end, five figure seats, I’d say, no more than 10,000 seat range. Adil Saleh: Okay. Okay. And all of them are paid customers. Are those just, you know, you’re building expansion models on? Unknown Speaker: Yeah, so our app we have, we have to have a free version of it. So it’s a mix of both. Truthfully, the free version is so you can do outside sharing with outside organizations and things like that. Otherwise, you can’t expect people to pay for it if you’re just sharing like a random legal document or something. So we have it’s a mix, it’s a mix of both. We have a bunch of different packages and stuff. So they’re really spread out a bunch in terms of who are who is where. Adil Saleh: Okay, cool. Cool. So let’s jump a little bit about your customer success operations, which are led by user right? Yep. Right now, or? Okay, cool. So how do you guys segment customers for your own team? Like, of course, there’s small mid enterprise, that’s fine. But for you guys, to be able to retain the revenue on reaching the customer? How do you guys segregate and then distributed across different team members? Alex Ames: Right, It’s a challenge, because we, like I said, the end users get pretty big, depending on the situation, you know, like, let’s say a large law firm has 150 employees, you know, so that’s a lot of individuals to deal with. And especially if, let’s say they are considered a small medium, enterprise business, and we don’t, we don’t really deal with, we don’t really handhold them, to an extent, as much as we would like to, because there could be a lot of that that going forward. So most of the large enterprises, they get a lot of, you know, white glove service type situation where they get, based on our product, where there’s an admin panel, which is the Google admins and stuff, I deal with a lot with them. And that can be a team of you know, it can be anywhere from two people to 10 people, 20 people, and it’s their job to kind of spread it down. Now, obviously, the bigger you get, the harder that It becomes. So I also have, we also have procedures in place for that. And for the end user, that’s not necessarily a call, but it’s more engaging material, updating our tutorials in app stuff or FAQs, support pages along those long those lines, as well as making it as simple as possible for them. Our app is notoriously super simple. So it makes it really easy for the end user to say, Oh, this is just a couple clicks. Because people when people think of security, they think of it’s going to be this pain in the butt thing that you have to add on top of my daily work schedule. It’s really just an extra click, like one click, and it’s done. So I deal a lot with the admins for the large enterprises. And I don’t really do a lot of onboarding for the for the little guys, we have systems in place for that, as we’re starting up and stuff, we do do a lot onboarding for the small and medium sized enterprises, just to make sure that they get their feet wet. And we understand our processes as well, especially in the lols when enterprises aren’t coming in at the time. But a lot of our structure is based on dealing with the admin panel and the people that are that are the high levels of the of their domain. Adil Saleh: Gotcha. So and, of course, it becomes a pain when the customer gets bigger and bigger. You have multiple users and you cannot go in and spend a huge amount of time working hands on When people that’s why you build knowledge base and all that, right? So when it comes to measuring the activities like the product usage or platform usage activities, do you guys have any system or technology in place to make sure, okay, we have these many customers, this is their health, this is their activity in the last five days, you know, any actionable data points or actionable insights to your customers accessing that lands and then drives action? Alex Ames: Right? For us? Not yet. It’s something that I am pushing for, like I said, I came in with a blank slate. And the the main, my main concern, the last like 60 days has been to, Okay. If we open the floodgates of enterprise clients coming in, are we going to explode from service requests, ticketing, all that stuff? Is it going to be stress tested? But is it going to be able to hold so that was my that’s been our main concern, consolidating the data, to be more actionable has been is kind of left on the backburner until I make sure okay, we’re not gonna blow up on impact. And that’s been the main sort of thing. So right now we don’t have that stuff. There’s certain there’s certain things we have that we’re going to implement certain things we can only because it’s, you know, a cybersecurity company, you don’t really want to like be taking people’s information, because that’s kind of counterintuitive. So there’s certain things we can track or certain things we can’t. But it’s in terms of checking usage for enterprise clients we currently have and stuff like that. It’s really dependent on at the moment how the cadence calls are doing with the admin panel, because there’s a couple of features on our app where you can do bulk encryption. So you can encrypt your entire Google workspace up to a couple, you know, 10s of 1000s of files at once. It takes a couple of minutes, like maybe two minutes. But that’s something we can really monitor. Okay, how many files are you actually you have bulk encrypted, how many things are getting, getting through the gaps? You know, and if those things are, then let’s make sure we encrypt those, the next next go about and the cadence calls. So if everything is encrypted, and if everything’s encrypted, they have to use our app to be able to use it. So it’s kind of a forced adoption in a sense. But it’s really important from the top down that they want this already. So it makes it relatively quickly in terms of moving forward. Adil Saleh: Okay, okay. That’s interesting. Make, of course, it’s in cloud, it’s, it has nothing much to do with the storage and all that mean, Unknown Speaker: as everything is, which just adds on to your Google workspace, where we leave off where Google ends. We take over. Adil Saleh: And, and you guys just work with, like with Google irrigation. As of as of now, like as of right now. On top? are you guys planning on on the roadmap? Yeah. Unknown Speaker: So we’re currently Dropbox is currently I think, either done or in the works. Slack is I think, Next, Next in line. And then we have some other interesting pieces that are kind of ahead of Google’s time a little bit also. Some of it involves client side encryption, and things of that nature, where it’s just a couple of clicks in your actual browser. And it’s like natural rather than opening another app. So we have some really cool functionality with that, that I can’t really disclose. But there’s a bunch of things in that regard that are super, super interesting technology that will come out in the next, I’d say three to six months from us. Big Game Changer. Adil Saleh: I was about to ask for Dropbox for sure. And also slag. Yeah, that’s that’s definitely it’s, it’s a source of truth. When it comes to, you know, data store your data sharing, you know, all of that. So now, one last question, before we jump into how you have like you streamline the entire journey of the customer is, at this moment, what kind of use cases you guys are serving for small to midsize tech businesses, because a lot of them will be listening to this. So I would appreciate you just go and give them an overview of best top pain points that go with cloud service. Alex Ames: Sure. So I would say the biggest one that we’ve gotten a lot of really good feedback on from a lot of different enterprise companies is our encrypted search. So you’re able to, with our with our bulk encryption feature, let’s say you encrypt, you know, 100,000 files within your Google workspace domain. We have encrypted search, so where we can search, either in text search or title search, and find those files for you, because most encrypted files you can’t search for. So our technology allows you to search for that information quickly. Rather than just, oh, it’s encrypted and after like scroll through a bunch of things and try to look for it and stuff like that. And that’s been very, very useful. On top of that, for larger and medium to large enterprises are our client side encryption technology that’s kind of behind the scenes is getting really really good at discerning data and encrypting set pieces of things and other types of technology that we haven’t rolled out yet, which is very, very useful for, you know, large data pools and data rooms and stuff. Because that’s just an amalgamation of a bunch of unstructured data. And our specialty is taking that unstructured data, encrypting it for yourself to worry about it. But now we can organize it, and we can shift it around for you. And you could find it at the touch of a button the exact same way the report should be, right, but But it’s encrypted now. And so those features are super, super important and super useful for medium to larger enterprises. Especially as we get into this age where, you know, everyone’s getting their information hacked, or there’s so many attacks, you know, we hear stories all the time from so many different companies that are happening. So it’s something that’s we’re pushing hard on, because it’s a it’s something that is a solution, not a prevention method, most cybersecurity companies are like a diagnostic tool. So it’s Oh, you’re gonna you have you have a weakness here, weak point here, or this is where you’re gonna lose information. This is where you’re turning information. Ours is a solution instead of that, most companies say, Oh, this is where you’re weak, but we say, Okay, if you have us, it won’t happen at all. And what’s nice about it is because it’s so simple to use, and the user experience and the user interface is so easy to use, it’s a whole company wide thing that you can do. Because the end user, like you know, the the data entry person that works remote in the middle of Illinois or something, you know, that person, that person is contributing to the security of a company, just as much as your CISO is because they’re all doing the same things. And they’re all within the same domain. They’re working with the same tool of okay, everything is encrypted, or making sure things are encrypted going through grabcloud, and stuff. And it’s a preventative thing where if we have this, it’s not going to happen. Usually, I say people need and people come back and they say, oh, we need you now. It’s usually too late. Adil Saleh: Yes, in this in these cases, it’s usually too late. Absolutely. And and this, this also can be incorporated. company wide like team not just specific to teams, but company wide as well, just like oh, Alex Ames: yeah, that’s yeah, that’s what I mean, everything like I mean, from the sales team, to the marketing team to operations, finance, accounting, bookkeeping, anything, it can go across everything, anything that has potentially sensitive information, social security numbers, any type of other data, government agencies, education, you know, things like that, where it’s, you’re, you’re having very high value information, like it needs to be protected. That’s to some capacity, it needs to be protected. And not it’s not enough to, it’s not enough anymore in the current day and age to say, Okay, it’s protected enough. And we’ll know where it’s coming from, if we’re getting attacked, it needs to be a guarantee and garble cloud aims to be that guarantee for any Google workspace customer. Adil Saleh: Cool, cool. And just as an aside, non veg, you guys have also, you know, tried to penetrate in the European market, because there’s not more regulations and stuff. Or you just Unknown Speaker: us only for the time being, for the time being. Adil Saleh: Okay, cool. Cool stuff. So now coming on the customers that you’re serving and the revenue that you’re retaining, what kind of goals you have set for this? Not this year, just make it like next year, for the next one year? And what is, you know, what is the biggest challenge right now, as of now, of course, technology systems, you get involved? You have you have dedicated tools or see as that all the data lands, that’s fine. But you being senior, of course, you’re going to be leading the team going forward. What is what is the goal that you’re, you’re kind of choosing and what’s the biggest challenge? Unknown Speaker: Yeah, I think the biggest goal for us is integrating and preparing for a bigger storm of customers coming in. We’ve been, we’ve been making a very big push for partners. And in doing a lot of, you know, behind the scenes work within the sales department to get things going and getting the systems in place. And it’s finally starting to give us give us the tangible data where we can duplicate it pretty easily. So my goal is to make sure that okay, as we go from, from small team to big team, is everything scalable, is everything, are we capable of growing quickly. Because it’s not like I’m dealing with a client, I’m dealing with, you know, if I get if I get a customer that has 200,000 seats, you know, and 1% of those people have a problem on one day, right? I don’t know if you have time for 2000 calls in a day. But I don’t have time for 2000 calls in a day. I also don’t have time to onboard them. If it’s a 30 minute onboarding call per person, I don’t have 15 years to do it, or however much of the math comes out to me. So the scalability of that is something that I’ve really been focusing on in like bulletproofing a lot of our knowledge base so that people understand, okay, this is really easy. Like when I when I when I say this, I’m saying this as a guy who’d like I don’t have a traditional tech background and in college or anything like that. I didn’t go to school for computer science or cybersecurity or anything it related. So because of that, I know Okay, some technology can be scary and daunting, this is absolutely not it. So I want to make sure that we have that that idea is bullet proofed to the max for us going forward. So as we add these seats, we can say, okay, yeah, 150,000 seats a week, we can handle additional additional additional, it’s technically only one client. So it’s really only, you know, a couple calls here and there, but it’s okay, how do we deal with the customer service side of it too? Do I have to have, you know, a team for call and phone calls or have to have a team for chats, stuff like that, and build that stuff out? To make sure that we all that stuff is sorted, and it can be a daunting task, and it’s the numbers of it seems scary. But it’s something I’m looking forward to doing within the next three to six months, where, hey, we were ready for this, we can do this. And they will be coming. Adil Saleh: Okay, cool, cool. Because to be able to make itself or for a small segment of customers, that’s the way to go. And then you focus on your enterprise segment most in the first two years, maybe, and then you get the market fit, then you scale it. So now, and think about this, like, we asked this a lot. How much of your CS ops are digital? How much are more hands on, like, towards the high touch at this moment? Or you’re thinking of having sort of an ecosystem that, like I said, setting the baseline strong, and then you know, building up on it and replicating the best scalable processes. So at this moment, how do you gauge your customer success operations, more towards digital or more towards, you know, hands on, you know, CSM? Alex Ames: Gotcha. I would say, right now it’s at 20, digital to traditional. And that’s just because of the client sizes we’ve had. And previously with onboarding the clients before my time, that’s how it was as well. And there was no real cadence to things. As we’re getting going, there’s been a lot more of traditional CSM work for me, where, okay, I have to onboard certain things. Certain companies or partners even have multiple onboarding calls within the same week, because it’s multiple partners. It’s not just Okay, one, one company, it’s multiple companies I have to do demos for and things of that regard. So it’s gonna get flipped at some point. Eventually, I’d love it to be where it’s mostly a traditional customer success management, and then a little bit of customer service. Ideally, I split those into two teams, and then deal with them separately. And that that kind of splits around the middle, I’d say medium enterprise businesses, it could be small, depending on the size of it, but it really splits around, I’d say 500 seats or above, where it starts getting into, okay, I’m here to onboard and help you guys out, and what do you need from me, and then stuff like that? Adil Saleh: Cool, I’m so glad the way you guys are moving, like the way you are heading towards, and also this integration, Slack and Dropbox coming up, it’s going to be a big change. And of course, everything comes with an overhead challenges. So there are challenges, and you gotta be prepared for it. And especially in the data, you know, because, you know, we talk talk to, you know, customer data platform, we talk data analytics platforms, we talk to huge technologies that have so much to do with the data servers, infrastructure. And that’s it. So now, from this point onwards, how soon do you think you can you need to or if you need to implement a dedicated customer success tool, like just for the customer facing team that allows them to tray, you know, just get the data, get insights and drive that drives action right away and save tons of time? Like choosing set up communication, data revenue, coverage, all of that just like Digital’s Yes, Alex Ames: yeah, it depends on a couple things. It could be anywhere from the end of this month to the end of next month, it will be before the end of this year, for sure. And it’s something I was pushing like, we need this at some point. But it wasn’t worth it. At the time. It wasn’t warranted based off of the amount of clients we had, we had a lot of the big ones, but it wasn’t a lot of little ones, you got to keep track of anything. So it was so it’ll be within the end of this year for sure. And we’ll have those tools in place where okay, we can see what’s going on where we need to have more touch points and where information needs to be passed to more. Adil Saleh: Yeah, because like you mentioned, you have so many freely falling customers, you know, that are that are living in the gray world. So you got to make sure that you’re serving them enough so they can make the transaction and that’s that’s the whole point of says right before that you need to you know, incorporate these technologies, data points and then give CSM which cannot be, I don’t think if some not it’s not the best problem case. Somebody that is so good at customer facing and is also technical. Right? You won’t get a lot of them. You may get a few of them but you cannot build an entire big team of them. There still be more than 60% of you people that are not so good at data You know, understanding the data as well. So they need translation of sorts. That’s why, you know, in copy too, so I’m, I’m super glad that you’re pretty much thinking along those lines. Right? Copied. So which is later this year, right? Alex Ames: Yeah, it’s I say this, I came in, I came in, there was nothing here, walk into a walk into a blank slate, like you expect to walk into something and say, Oh, hey, I’m gonna have all these things in place or whatever, there was nothing. In that regard. I had, you know, quick onboarding, learn the app as much as possible, get in really into it with that from there. What happens? You know, so I’m doing this from Ground Zero, like it’s a tradition, true startup, where we’re starting from from nothing. So I don’t want to make it sound like we’re behind. We’re literally right on time for this stuff. It’s just Yeah, I can Adil Saleh: see that. Cool. So because it’s, there’s a different charm in doing things from the ground level, and making it like scaling it from the baseline. And for any textbook tech business that is solving a specific industry or business problem. You know, it’s all about, you know, starting from scratch, and building up. So about so alien people. So about the team, how big is your team, at this moment, Alex Ames: my team is Mizmor success. Adil Saleh: It’s just you. Alex Ames: It’s just me, okay, me and me in multiple 1000s of seats. So I’m, I’m running the world’s world’s largest lecture at any given moment. Just for for the time being, it makes sense to just have me do it. And then as we grow and expand and add more clients, we’ll expand the team we have, we have, we’re already working on recruiting and stuff so that by the time we’re ready to go, we can pull the trigger. So if anyone here is watching at Once a customer success job, they can, you know, reach out to me or something and shoot a resume. We’re ready to go like in terms of expanding, but it’s just me. I handle everything from knowledgebase articles, things of that nature to onboarding to you know, Cadence calls and stuff. And it’s a Thank God, I am good at time management. Adil Saleh: Yeah, that recalls me, my old self when I was working back in 2017, at condensor is SAS platform for social media marketing and management, content management, competing Buffer, Hootsuite, similar to that. So at that point, it was just me doing the sales support knowledge base, we were using back then HelpScout HelpScout for the knowledge base and writing articles and you know, taking screenshots of the product and arrows and all that was super non technical, super, you, I can hear that you are way more technical than, than me. So we would have a great competition. Having on the same team. So that’s, that’s that was a thing. And it was it took me from like, it took two and a half years. You know, I’ve learned everything, I have my two couple tasks platforms. So it you know, I’ve been working with product teams, I’ve been working with data teams, I’ve been working with CEOs, you know, all of these. So it was just me the front facing getting all the shit from customers. And that’s how you learn. Yeah, so love that. So Alex, about growing the team first, what are the best because these people, a lot of csmc, come ask questions about, you know, we need a career change, we need to jump into these technologies, we need to transition out these technologies, maybe these roles. So what is the best thing about Government Cloud team? And what is that you’re looking for? In the candidates? Alex Ames: Sure. The best thing about the team, there’s a lot of them, for me, and I can kind of shed light on why I chose garblecloud as well. I want an environment that from the top down is full of passion, from the CEO to the lowest person on whoever that has to be or whoever that is. I wanted it to be a lot of passion and drive for what we do. And what’s nice about our team is it’s small, so you’re in constant interaction with the CEO, the CCO and stuff. And brilliant guys, the CEOs PhD from UC Irvine, and cybersecurity couple patents for this company specifically, you know, very brilliant guy, Greg, good technical mind, you can pick, you know, CCL brilliant guy as well in terms of, you know, customers sit and sales and stuff like that. So it’s a very intimate environment, which I like. Everyone’s really driven and worked really hard. There’s a lot of trust, and there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of grit and grind as well, because it’s a startup, we have to wear a lot of hats. I’m in a lot of gray areas. I say I say I’m more in a gray area than anyone else who’s on the team. And sales focuses primarily on sales, marketing, operate, whatever, I’m in amalgamation of all of it. So that’s why I like to sit so if you’d like to sit in that sort of environment where it’s, you know, it’s chaotic, there’s things that come up. I say every time I wake up in the morning, I checked my phone, if there’s an email, there’s a fire I have to put out somewhere. So if that’s the type of environment you like, and like the fast pace, you know, with good grocery trajectory to because it’s an Like, we’re like we’re doing something that is done before, this is a very cutting edge technology that we there’s no real main competitors at all for our same type of technology, it’s patented to just us. So it’s very unique. And we’re growing really, really rapidly. In terms of what I need from a customer success manager, someone in customer success, General, major technical background isn’t really necessary. You need to be able to speak the language though. And I say I say speak the language, because we’re dealing with any anywhere from CISO, CSOs to the end user sales guy or, you know, admin assistant or something like that. So you need to be able to translate the geekspeak, the super technical wording from that person to the next person, because a si CISL will grill you on the details of things that grill you on the tech behind it, the terminology and stuff, and you have to be able to hang with that, as well as you know, translate and say, Okay, well, I’m gonna give it to you on a fifth grade level, to every other individual that doesn’t have that sort of degree or that position. So some technical background where you can be able to translate that I’m not saying you have to be techie, I don’t really have a preference on that. But be able to understand that stuff and be very personable. We’re very laid back environment. So it makes it for a nice working experience. And everyone knows from from our sales reps to our, to our CEO CCO and stuff that were very chill and laid back and we can get stuff done, however you want us to get it done. There’s no like scary corporate rigid stuff. Hopefully, it doesn’t happen ever. But that isn’t right now. That’s cool. Adil Saleh: I mean, I relate this, thank you very much, Alex, for putting this all very simplified and very personal. And at this shore, people will understand them folks listening to this guy, they’re building like a players like Steve Jobs said, back in the 90s. So it’s all about getting the A players in the in the first initial team. And it is so important that your initial founding members, they actually set the bar, they actually set the tone. And, and it’s and I relate started so much with sports. Because in sports, you have this, this, this weight of fear all the time, and you’re fighting it from, you know, minute one to, to the end of the game you’re fighting. So it’s all about you know, courage, it’s all about building the work ethic, it’s all about building the right, you know, being passionate, driven, you cannot do it, you cannot work in a startup without being passionate about it. Like I was just sharing some stuff to my team, I have a SaaS product too. And that product is sitting in the stout. And we we go gone past from the idea stage, and it’s now in the development stage. And so she watched that video, and for the first time, I felt that she’s like, it’s been about seven months now, for the first time, I felt that she is now bought into the technology bought into the problem that we’re solving. So it’s just about, you know, having an intuition for for the problem is, regardless of technology and having an intuition for the product to make an impact, and contribute. So if you, I mean, if anybody, you know, you know, embeds this and instills this in any team member, you’re getting your players every other day. Alex Ames: You can’t fake passion. If you really enjoy it, and it’s something you want to do, then you’ll do it. And however you want to go about it, you go about it. And for me, it’s the hours don’t matter. I don’t care about any of that stuff, I enjoy what I’m doing. And I believe in the product and where it’s going where we’re taking it. So, Adil Saleh: Alice, from heart of my hearts, I really really appreciate the kind of experience that you share and the kind of person you are and the way you are so much different and you know, wearing different hats and you know, crossing bridges for bridges for the team and customers being one standard loan customer success manager. So thank you very much for taking the strength every single day. And being there and being strong. And I’m sure I’ve learned from you everybody else listening to this, I will learn. Alex Ames: I appreciate it means a lot. Adil Saleh: Good calories. So have a good rest of your day, Alex. All right. Thank you so very much for staying with us on the episode please share your feedback at adilette heparinase.io. We definitely need it. We will see you next time another guest on the stage with some concrete tips on how to operate better as a Customer Success leader and how you can empower engagements with some building some meaningful relationships with qualified people for the episode just to make sure we bring the value to the listeners do reaches out if you want to refer any CS leader. Until next time, goodbye and have a good rest of your day.